Rinoa to Ultimecia?

[F. F. Fan]

Have I heard of the theory? Yes.

Do I believe it? No, but it’s very romantic in nature.

It’s not really plausible in my opinion, but every now and then I’ll come across an interesting view on the theory.

Do you have anything to add to it? Yes, one question that I’d like someone who supports the R=U theory to try to explain…

Q: Assuming that Ultimecia is Rinoa, why would she sacrifice her past self freeing Adel (during the Lunar Base mission) and then casually discard herself only to die in open space?

.....And yes, I know you rescue her in the game, but that's not the answer/debate I'm looking for.

 

[Hayate]

Hrmm...first off that's sooo off. They look nothing alike.

BUT! Maybe they are saying that if Rinoa was never released of her powers that, that's what she'd become? I think that's what they were saying.

 

[ThroneofDravaris]

Even before Square's clarification of Sorceresses became common knowledge the theory was already in serious violation of Occam's Razor. Honestly, with the knew-found information that sorceresses age at the same rate as regular humans, I can't believe the theory is still yet to be completely thrown out as wishful thinking.

 

[Bambi]

she could be her great great (etc) grand daughter!!!!

Q: Assuming that Ultimecia is Rinoa, why would she sacrifice her past self freeing Adel (during the Lunar Base mission) and then casually discard herself only to die in open space?

.....And yes, I know you rescue her in the game, but that's not the answer/debate I'm looking for.


Maybe she knew she must get rescued otherwise she wouldn't be there in the future had she snuffed it in the past? so she took the risk?! OR she knew she couldn't possibly die, coz, being a sorceress, you can't die til you pass your powers on...?!

Anyway, this is the first time i ever heard this theory, so il just agree with your originall theory. That it's not her!!! lol.....

 

[eisprinz]

Actually, you could say that the Rinoa-to-Ultimecia theory is part of the game.

In every good plot, a nemesis must be a mirror or a shadow to the hero. For example, in FFVII, Cloud was deemed the "failed experiment" with Sephiroth being the overwhelming success.

In FFVIII the main nemesis, rather than being Squall's mirror, is rather Rinoa's mirror. Ultimecia, whether you believe in the Rinoa-Ultimecia theory or not, represents what Rinoa may become if she turns to the wrong side. Rinoa's biggest internal worry - becoming the enemy of the world as a sorceress - manifests itself in the external presence of Ultimecia, thus making a formula villain.

That is, Ultimecia would be a formula villain, if Rinoa were the main protagonist. This adds another wrinkle to the plot; why did the game designers choose to make Rinoa's perfect villain the main enemy of the game, rather than Squall's perfect villain, Seifer?

I believe this was done in order to enhance the aspect of love which is pounded into throughout the game. Squall pledges himself to Rinoa becoming her knight - therefore, her biggest enemy becomes his biggest enemy, even more important than his own. It's chivalry in a very traditional sense.

So the Rinoa-Ultimecia theory is really more than fans speculating. It's actually the result of a well-known concept in literature: the shadow of the hero.

 

[Mugen]

No I don't believe this, never thought about it to be honest. Mainly cause you battle Ultimecia, numerous time with Rinoa, maybe if she was absent during those fights this would have made me think... I'm pretty sure it's just that guy's imagination getting the better of him

 

[Zanmato]

Neh....it can't possibly be true. You kill Ultimecia while Rinoa is at your side... And why would Rinoa, the innocent and naive 17 year old girl, would want to become twisted and evil like Ultimecia?? I think this Rinoa=Ultimecia is fake.

 

[F. F. Fan]

she could be her great great (etc) grand daughter!!!!

Maybe she knew she must get rescued otherwise she wouldn't be there in the future had she snuffed it in the past? so she took the risk?! OR she knew she couldn't possibly die, coz, being a sorceress, you can't die til you pass your powers on...?!

Anyway, this is the first time i ever heard this theory, so il just agree with your originall theory. That it's not her!!! lol.....

Actually, in my opinion, Rinoa did die in space - at least in one possible outcome she dies. As with any time loop, like the one in this game, every decision made will lead to a different set of outcomes with each consecutive loop, until the cause of the loop is broken, in theory (the death of Ultimecia).

Anyway, if Rinoa dies, assuming that she’s the future Ultimecia, then Ultimecia would cease to exist thus contradicting the entire existence of the time loop and events of the game (Paradox). This alone basically debunks the R=U theory, again, in my opinion.

Ah well, that the short version of one of my theories and I’m sure a lot of people will either agree or disagree with my view as the R=U theory can be infinitely debatable...

 

[eisprinz]

Hmm... I still go with my idea that R=U is really just the writers using the "shadow of the hero" technique for building the villain, rather than the two literally being one another.

 

[Mugen]

Actually, in my opinion, Rinoa did die in space - at least in one possible outcome she dies. As with any time loop, like the one in this game, every decision made will lead to a different set of outcomes with each consecutive loop, until the cause of the loop is broken, in theory (the death of Ultimecia).

Anyway, if Rinoa dies, assuming that she’s the future Ultimecia, then Ultimecia would cease to exist thus contradicting the entire existence of the time loop and events of the game (Paradox). This alone basically debunks the R=U theory, again, in my opinion.

Ah well, that the short version of one of my theories and I’m sure a lot of people will either agree or disagree with my view as the R=U theory can be infinitely debatable...

Very scientific , true though , but hell why would anyone even think of this?

 

[Howl]

Have I heard of the theory? Yes.

Do I believe it? No, but it’s very romantic in nature.

It’s not really plausible in my opinion, but every now and then I’ll come across an interesting view on the theory.

Do you have anything to add to it? Yes, one question that I’d like someone who supports the R=U theory to try to explain…

Q: Assuming that Ultimecia is Rinoa, why would she sacrifice her past self freeing Adel (during the Lunar Base mission) and then casually discard herself only to die in open space?

.....And yes, I know you rescue her in the game, but that's not the answer/debate I'm looking for.

Well...this information may answer a question that goes to disprove the R=U theory...but here it goes...

Spoiler

Ultimecia never intended to use Rinoa or Adel to do her physical bidding. It was the chance encounter that caused her plans to shift. I believe that Ultimecia had intended to use Edea as her vessel in order to carry out her entire plan of time compression. After all...Ultimecia's goal is to find Ellone and use her to travel further into the past than her current "Junction machine ellone" could take her...And what better person to use as your pawn to attract Ellone than Edea...who is really Matron...who is the woman who fostered Ellone to begin with. Edea was the perfect candidate to carry out the mission because she's Ellone's foster mother.
That's like carrying kupo nuts in your pocket to make your pet moogle follow you around. It just makes sense! (Ok, bad analogy <___<).

Moving on...when Squall and co. defeat Edea inside of Galbadia Garden, Edea gets beat to such a pulp (apparently) that she lost her powers (maybe she was on the verge of death) and Ultimecia was ultimately forced to leave Edea's body and possess the nearest sorceress...which was Rinoa. Now...I'm not sure at this point whether or not Rinoa already was a sorceress...or if she became a sorceress when Ultimecia posessed her. That's another thing that's up for debate, but an entirely different subject. The point is that Ultimecia was forced out of Edea's body and she chose Rinoa as her new vessel.

This also explains why Rinoa was in a "coma" for so long. Apparently, Ultimecia was just lying dormant because of the predicament she was in. At this point in time, Squall and co. have no idea who Ultimecia is. They don't know that Rinoa is being possessed...they just think...wtf is going on...she just passed out and went into a coma. Well...actually Ultimecia is keeping Rinoa comatose until she figures out what to do, or...better yet...where to find a new vessel.

Here's what happens next...Squall scouts out Edea...who has returned to her former self and retreated to her old orphanage. Edea tells Squall about Ellone. She informs Squall and co. that Ellone is the one with "special powers" who caused him to have his "lucid fairy dreams" about being inside of Laguna's body.
Hmm...Ellone can take people back in time? Idea!!!
Squall decides to find Ellone and ask her to take him back in time so he can change Rinoa's fate.
Done and done...but when the opportunity arises, instead of changing her fate, we just see a translucent apparition of Ultimecia leaving Edea's body and entering Rinoa's instead. Well that didn't work. What now?

Squall decides to go to Esthar...the technological capital of the world in order to find the infamous Dr. Odine; a sorceress specialist. Supposedly, this Doctor might have a chance at helping Rinoa! Off to Esthar we go!
Once they arrive, they're greeted with a sad let down, but...Odine informs them that their may be a chance to help Rinoa out of her Coma if she is taken to the Lunar Base...which for some reason has better medical facilities than Earth.

Ahah! As luck would have it...Rinoa is transported into outer space. The same outer space where the much more powerful sorceress Adel is being held in imprisonment. Looks like all that waiting paid off for Ultimecia! She never wanted to use Rinoa's weak body to begin with, so she sets out to free Adel from imprisonment by using Rinoa's puppet body to do the deed.

Ultimecia never wanted to be cooped up in Rinoa's feeble body...it was a chance occurrence that accidentally lead her to Adel. During the space mission, Ultimecia uses Rinoa to free Adel, then transports from Rinoa's body into the sleeping Adel. Rinoa is no longer possessed, and she's left helplessly floating through space.

Then she's rescued...then they proceed back to earth, a jumble of other events happen...the team formulates a plan to defeat Adel, because in doing so, Ultimecia will be forced to leave Adel's body and enter the nearest sorceress...which is going to be Rinoa. But...it's a trick.
(Note that...no one ever wanted Ultimecia to take control of Adel. This was not a part of anyone's plans. Not Laguna, not Odine, not Squall and co. Adel is considered to be a very powerful, very evil sorceress. And Dr. Odine himself even worried that Adel would take control of Ultimecia's conscience!)
And I thank the wonderful Sir Bahamut's gamefaqs FAQ for this quote...

"In order for Ultimecia to exist in this time, she must take over ze body of
a sorceress from ze present. But ze machine must have a limit. Ultimecia
probably needs to go back further in time to achieve time compression. Only
Ellone can take her back further into ze past. Zat iz why she iz desperately
seeking her. We must take advantage of Ellone's power. There are 2
sorceresses in our time. Sorceress Rinoa and Sorceress Adel. Of ze two, Adel
has not awakened yet. Once regeneration is completed, neither Laguna not I
will be safe. Sorceress Adel is probably in ze process of awakening inside
of Lunatic Pandora. Ultimecia will want to possess Adel, if Adel wakes up.
Zat vill be a horrible event.Adel iz a horrible sorceress. If Adel's consciousness wins over Ultimecia, Adel will first destroy this era. So we must use Sorceress Rinoa to inherit Ultimecia's powers."

-Dr. Odine-


http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/34215

So the events move on...the party defeats Adel, forcing Ultimecia to leave her current host, again. She takes control of Rinoa. Ellone then uses her powers to take Rinoa (who is posessed by Ultimecia) into the past (which his where Ultimecia wants to be in order to perform time compression). Ultimecia begins to compress time, but before she can complete time compression, she is cut off...all of time is jumbled...the party then uses this opportunity to travel forward through time and seek out Ultimecia.


The end!!!!