The Downfall of Final Fantasy.

I do agree mostly with thte op but I am going to to stick with the majority on this thread. Square enix is all about doing different things, starting the first game where you coulds actually see your characters as well as the enemies they fight to the fourteenth game where you have a massive world. I may not agree with the choices Square has made over the recent years but I am glad they are trying new things at all. Square enix isn't exactly good when it comes to making true sequels for their flagship title title but nevertheless it alright because they can create new stories for each new game.

The Final Fantasy series has always been about doing new things while keeping the same charm that made the series so awesome. While I did not agree with the compilation, the online games or the 'sequels' they give their new games, I am sort of glad that they are doing that and I would not known FFVII even wasn't for Advent Children. Square has always done new things and I hope that continue to do so while giving us a great story, endearing characters, awesome music and a massive world to play in.
 
Guernsey said:
I do agree mostly with thte op but I am going to to stick with the majority on this thread. Square enix is all about doing different things, starting the first game where you coulds actually see your characters as well as the enemies they fight to the fourteenth game where you have a massive world. I may not agree with the choices Square has made over the recent years but I am glad they are trying new things at all. Square enix isn't exactly good when it comes to making true sequels for their flagship title title but nevertheless it alright because they can create new stories for each new game.

The Final Fantasy series has always been about doing new things while keeping the same charm that made the series so awesome. While I did not agree with the compilation, the online games or the 'sequels' they give their new games, I am sort of glad that they are doing that and I would not known FFVII even wasn't for Advent Children. Square has always done new things and I hope that continue to do so while giving us a great story, endearing characters, awesome music and a massive world to play in.
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The free-roamable world is getting smaller and smaller - FFXIII had very very very little freeroam. The music is getting steadily worse too - Leona Lewis was used to created the main music of FFXIII. And that music quickly annoyed me after the 30th cutscene (10 minutes into the game) in which it was played. While the music in FFXII wasn't particularly memorable either. The only track I can remember is the remixed Gilgamesh theme.
 
OzDok said:
The free-roamable world is getting smaller and smaller - FFXIII had very very very little freeroam. The music is getting steadily worse too - Leona Lewis was used to created the main music of FFXIII. And that music quickly annoyed me after the 30th cutscene (10 minutes into the game) in which it was played. While the music in FFXII wasn't particularly memorable either. The only track I can remember is the remixed Gilgamesh theme.
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I'd say the worlds arnt really getting smaller... FFXII was a huge world I think, and FFXIII was pretty big also, just was linear story so didn't have that flying around the world feel to it. and like I said in a earlier post, if you want a game that never changes... basically try any of the newer "rpgs" out there or try Dragon quest that always has the same feel to it.
 
I'd have to say that in terms of quality, Square-Enix dropped the ball a long time ago. I stopped liking the series at FFIX. I loved FFIX, and was excited for FFX, and I hated FFX from the second I put it in my PS2. I wasn't a fan of XI, XII, and XIII was one of the worst games I've ever played. Hopefully, one day they pick things back up and go back to being a great company.

However, with Wada in charge, I don't see that happening.

Though, to be honest, I really don't care much about it anymore. Atlus has been churning out great video games, and while they don't sell as much as SE, the quality of them is vastly superior.
 
I agree with the poster.
Square has gone downhill from their heydays.
It takes alot of creativilty and time to develope a complete game.Plot and character developement take a long time.
Easier to just chuck those and go for the flashy graphics knowing the fans will buy it anyway.

I do wonder about Eidos, a company Square bought and the deus ex prequel that has fans buzzing over the video.If it's a hit Square will take credit for it although I assume it was in production prior to the sale.
Maybe that game will revive their fortunes if it's as good as it looks.

I still say Square though should partner with Bethesda or Bioware and use their input to improve FF.I realsize some fans are against the idea.
I suspect Kitase and Toriyama wouldn't like it either.

But FF needs a well thought out story with compelling characters and not just flashy graphics.
 
As much as I enjoyed IX and X, for me VII and VIII are the pinnacle of the series. Kitase directing, Nomura and Naora providing the art, Nojima, Kitase and Nomura on writing credits, and Uematsu composing the soundtrack. As soon as they started tinkering with that winning formula things started slipping IMO.
 
I would agree with you but from I observed, impressive graphics had always been a staple of the series. Granted, there weren't always high quality but it is often comparable to most JRPG games in general. Just look at FFVIII alone on the PS1 especially with the CGI but the previous poster said, the graphics alone don't make a game. Final Fantasy had always been about telling a story meanwhil complementing it with good graphics, gameplay, characters and a vast world to explore but given the recent games as of late we hadn't gotten any of that.

However, with Wada in charge, I don't see that happening.

Though, to be honest, I really don't care much about it anymore. Atlus has been churning out great video games, and while they don't sell as much as SE, the quality of them is vastly superior.
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I had never played any of the Atlus games so I cannot judge but I am starting get annoyed at Wada especially with the directon he is taking the series.

I do wonder about Eidos, a company Square bought and the deus ex prequel that has fans buzzing over the video.If it's a hit Square will take credit for it although I assume it was in production prior to the sale.
Maybe that game will revive their fortunes if it's as good as it looks.

I still say Square though should partner with Bethesda or Bioware and use their input to improve FF. I realize some fans are against the idea.
I suspect Kitase and Toriyama wouldn't like it either.
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Well, I cannot judge on Bioware or Eidos games but I had played KOTOR at my cousins house. I didn't get to finish it sadly but Bioware made a good game. I don't know if I can agree with that, Biowae is an American and not of American companies know how to make a good Japanese RPG style game.


The free-roamable world is getting smaller and smaller - FFXIII had very very very little freeroam. The music is getting steadily worse too - Leona Lewis was used to created the main music of FFXIII. And that music quickly annoyed me after the 30th cutscene (10 minutes into the game) in which it was played. While the music in FFXII wasn't particularly memorable either. The only track I can remember is the remixed Gilgamesh theme.
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I am not musician like my father unfortunately but if I ever find that, I'll punch his lights out. FFXIII was a good game but it is not a Final Fantasy game. I miss exploring the world with an Airship, that was always the fun part of the series. :)
 
I would suggest that Bioware are a very, very good alternative to JRPGs. As if KOTOR wasn't good enough, then they hit us with Mass Effect. Not RPGs in the truest sense, more RPG-meets-FPS, but still, incredible games.
 
FFX2 was awesome and one of the best FF games ever made.

FF13 was ok, but so was FFX at the time. If you see the similarities between FFX and FF13, you will see that both games have a lot of common. for one both games are very linear. they game gave you almost no explorarion. barely any towns to visit. barely any shops or ways of transportation. there was an airship in FFX, but it wasn't all that great since basically you will just move from point A to point B.:)
I think the real FF game will be FF Versus 13, since Noruma is the only reason I still buy Square games.
 
I think the argument that Square makes bad games now is all about who you are. I personally think each final fantasy is unique in it's own way, and some you like parts of, and don't like features of. I say keep doing what you're doing SquareEnix(Minus the MMO junk) I have found Final fantasy I-XIII all Very enjoyable and satisfactory games.
If you want SqureEnix to ruin the series for you, they could always drop the series completely, as game consoles evolve, the games have to evolve as well, and I'm glad to see that happening to my favorite game series. :D
 
I don't think BioWare or Bethesda should collaborate with Squeenix, they all make very different games. BioWare focus on d20 D&D RPGs, Bethesda focus on true-roam RPGs and Squeenix focus on story-oriented JRPGs.

Eidos was bought out by Squeenix about 10 years ago, so no doubt they will take credit as publishers for the Deux Ex prequel.

I remember a reasoning that one of the main game producers gave for there being no world maps from X-XIII that was "It would take too much time and too much effort away from more critical tasks to build a HD worldmap"

When someone asked him why there was a huge world in FFXI then, he finished the interview without answering.

THEY ARE BEING FUCKING LAZY.
 
The downfall of Final Fantasy was Wada thinking everything had to be westernized, which proved to be a massive flaw in Final Fantasy XIII as it was not a JRPG, a WRPG or hardly even an RPG for that matter. Anything that they looked to make "western" was either poorly developed or underdeveloped such as the battle system for example. They should just keep to their roots and go back to how they designed and developed games back in the ps1-era. I wouldn't call porting games a downfall though; it's a little cost and large profit decision.
 
while i enjoy some FF games more than others, i found all of them offer something different with each installment, and that's what makes them appealing as a series to me. so, i respectfully disagree with the sentiment that the franchise is going downhill. i do agree the online games should not have been numbered, though, as jrpg's and mmo's are two different genres.

***editted out my rant, as it was quite abrasive. happy smiles everyone.
 
I guess I'm alone in this, but I think that they keep getting better with each installment. With the exception of the MMO's I've played almost all of the numbered games but VIII and IX, and I've always thought the next FF was better than the last. Even the sequels/prequels/spinoffs, which I haven't gotten around to playing yet are looking more interesting than the older ones.

However I do agree that they milk VII waaaay to much
 
I was bound to hate one eventually, but it's a testament to the staying power of the franchise when I have enjoyed 11 out of the 12 main single player games.

As Tmoo said, each installment is different, but they all have redeeming qualities about them. XIII is the only one I hate, and it isn't really because of the characters or the story. The battle system was too juvenile (it seemed to me like Square Enix was trying to get new people into the franchise) and the melodrama and linearity were too much.

But just because I didn't like XIII doesn't mean I won't like XV, or XVI, or XVII, etc. I'm confident Square Enix can make an amazing Final Fantasy, once they figure out the right formula. They are in no way declining, and I believe Versus XIII will renew the faith of a lot of fans once it comes out.
 
The Final Fantasy series is the divisive series in gaming. Just on topic of FFVII alone, a lot fans say that, "This is the best game ever, lol!" and its haters, "FFVII is overrated lol" but nevertheless that is what makes it unqiue. The true sequels and prequels kind of ruins that enjoyment of the seires especially when you consider that you have to continue the orignal story and Square Enix (at least the Square part) isn't known to be consistent with sequels. I like the idea that the FF series takes palce in different world with only few correlation with each other. Not that I don't like true sequels but most of them tend to be very poorly done.

FFX-2 was just Charlie's angels with character derailment, FFVII Compilation sort of ruined the magic that FFVII wonderful for fnas, FFIV has been remade in like forever, the world of Ivalice should had limited to only Tactics and the recent FFXIII left a bad taste in my mouth. Square Enix (at least the Square part) aren't consistent with sequels especially when they are already had a decent story with the original games.
 
Guernsey said:
The Final Fantasy series is the divisive series in gaming. Just on topic of FFVII alone, a lot fans say that, "This is the best game ever, lol!" and its haters, "FFVII is overrated lol" but nevertheless that is what makes it unqiue. The true sequels and prequels kind of ruins that enjoyment of the seires especially when you consider that you have to continue the orignal story and Square Enix (at least the Square part) isn't known to be consistent with sequels. I like the idea that the FF series takes palce in different world with only few correlation with each other. Not that I don't like true sequels but most of them tend to be very poorly done.

FFX-2 was just Charlie's angels with character derailment, FFVII Compilation sort of ruined the magic that FFVII wonderful for fnas, FFIV has been remade in like forever, the world of Ivalice should had limited to only Tactics and the recent FFXIII left a bad taste in my mouth. Square Enix (at least the Square part) aren't consistent with sequels especially when they are already had a decent story with the original games.
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RPGs should never have sequels. The majority of them fail quite horribly. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but none of them are a Square sequel.

The problem with sequels is that if the original game was popular enough to spawn a sequel, you've gotta be damn sure that the sequel is just as good or better than the original otherwise you have a train wreck, no matter how slightly inferior it was.

For instance, I'm fairly certain that Kingdom Hearts was meant to be a one-off collaboration, but the success meant that it spawned a sequel. If KH2 had been worse, I'm pretty sure that none of the BBS, 358/2 Days and whatever the other crap is that spawned would have appeared.

Sequels have to be done right or they make the franchise look stupid.
 
You summed up my thoughts exactly, Sequels of RPGs should not be made unless they can do it right. Kingdom Hearts was a sleeper hit, it didn't even garner as much attention as it should due to the fact that most people believed that it was Disney game and most licesned games are terrible. Kingdom Hearts is an original work and not a licensed game but as usual I think that they found a gold mine and exploited it. I am not sure if nomura was actually prepared for a sequel but it was made and it was a good game until you hear the story. Most people think that Kingdom Hearts is an intricate story, it is not but rather it is a convoluted one as well as it is needlessly complex. How hard is it to come up with a simple story about a boy with a key?

Sora fights with a duck and a dog going across Disney worlds fight msyterious creatures we know as the Heartless. Kingdom Hearts didn't need all that complexity but it is a victim of its own success especially since it started off so well. Final Fantasy may be facing the same dilemma, I think it was overconfidence on Square's part. After all, Final Fantasy is an awesome series that has garned many fans and they do have a strong foundation so why not defy conventions and do something new? Of course, that doesn't always mean that they will be successful. Giving FFX a true sequel was mistake since the story stood well on its own, ditto for FFVII and its predecessor FFIV. The games stood well on their own and didn't need a sequel to expand the world further.

The Final Fantasy series always had a nice complete story that leaves almost no loose ends yet leaves you with something to think about. A lot of fans wanted to know if Cloud and friends survived the planet's destruction or if the planet was destroyed successful by Sephiroth. Advent Children sort of ruined it since it disspelled any hope of speculation now that Square Enix gave us the answer to that. The series should never had true sequels at all especially with the way Square Enix is handling it.
 
I'm just gonna leap to the defence of X-2 here in case it isn't on the exceptions list. While i can understand other not-really-sequels sequels not being up to the mark, X-2 was a good game. It may not have been as good as FFX, but it was a nice addition, and the fact that they made some reasonably big changes from the usual FF's makes it a bit more special.

I reckon it's kinda weird having cloud and Squall as sub-characters in Kingdom hearts too.....they deserve better than that.
 
I don't know where to start...

As a previous poster mentioned, Square Enix IS a corporation, and their job is to bring in money. They can't just make games for free. Well they could, but they would end up with the quality of a three day old turd. Don't blame them for wanting to make money. Would you not do whatever you could to bring in money if you were them?

As far as the quality of their games, that is strictly opinion. I do not speak for other people, and surely none of you speak for me. In fact, my least favorite game is one of the most liked games, and that is IX. My favorite, and in my opinion, the best, is IV.

Keep in mind, it's not like Square Enix is sitting there twiddling their thumbs trying to figure out how to make a game even more shitty than the last. They are trying to make a game that we, as fans, will like, while at the same time, trying to bring in new fans. Sure, the stuff they come up with is hit or miss, but at least they are TRYING new things. Where would Final Fantasy be if every game was just like 1? They wouldn't have gotten past 4 probably.

Back in the 90s and even early 2000s, how much competition in the RPG market did Final Fantasy have? Obviously not too much seeing as from I - IX, very little had changed about the series over each game. Granted, each game brought something new to the series, but still, the changes were relatively minor in hindsight. From X and on the steps were even bigger.

I personally still enjoy the series. I think that XIII is a good game. Sure it has it's flaws, but I don't hate on it every chance I get. I also think that VII was just a good game, not a great game. I didn't mind any of the sequels and prequels that VII got either. I enjoyed Advent Children and Crisis Core, but DoC was kinda lame though. I don't think that VI was a masterpiece that people tend to treat it as. IX just didn't do anything for me, but I didn't HATE it.

TL;DR

Square Enix is trying to make money, whether you like it or not. Their games getting crappier and crappier is you opinion and not everyone thinks the same as you. They aren't trying to create bad games. They are trying to create games that they THINK we will like. They HAVE to try new things or else they won't be able to continue competing.
 
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