Who is the best Final Fantasy villian?

[TrueSephiros]

I always get it that Jenova is doing all the dirty work while real Sephiroth is frozen. I got the picture that Jenova was on the ship were you get Ifrit and Jenova was the on who killed Aeris in the form of Sephiroth.

Sephiroth did everything mentally from the Northern Crater, it was he who controlled Jenova and shaped her body to look like him, or a clone if you so well. It was Sephiroth who manipulated Cloud to do almost kill Aeris and then single handedly hand him the Black Materia.

Sephiroth was the main catalyst that resulted in FF VII.

Bringing up the Kingdom Hearts Sephiroth is the most ridiculous notion ever, please refrain from KH Sephiroth, as that is not even the Cannon Sephiroth to begin with.

I think you may have missed the point of my post. I wasn't making light of your arguments for what Sephiroth has done and I disagree with those who say he did nothing. I was merely saying that telling someone their opinion "doesn't hold water" makes no sense. And it makes you come across as someone who doesn't give two shits about anyone's opinion but their own. You may not have thought Kefka was a great villain but other people do. Most of the people who have responded in this thread have played FF7, they've seen Sephiroth's accomplishments; some of them still don't think he's all that great. But that's their opinion and I doubt anything you say will change that.

Opinions are better when served with some decent reasons to make a claim "insert character" is better. Now I don't mind it then, however if you just come to me staking the claim Kefka>Sephiroth because he's more evil and kills more sounds a hell of alot like fanboyism to me. Wether you may think I come as some elitist or whatever, at least look to the characters personality and what they bring to the table overall before making a judgement.

Btw, I have seen this Kefka bandwagon as well, I do infact know people who like him for reasons that can be justified, however what I don't agree with is ranking an antagonist simply because of Kill Count. Most great antagonist, infact some of the best antagonist ever created do not have a massive kill count, which is what I was pointing too.

If that doesn't change their opinion, then cool, but have more reason to you opinion which is what I am saying. Which is my statement of opinions not holding any water.

Again, this is all a matter of opinion. Sephiroth is an extremely popular character. Someone who doesn't like Sephiroth is of course going to think that he's overrated. Perhaps they weren't as impressed with his accomplishments and character as his fans.

Vise Versa, but I guess some people like simplicity over complexity.

 

[Epsilon]

Kefka is from Final Fantasy VI I forget the Japanese number though >.>;; He is an awesome villian though. I'd put him above everybody except Sephiroth just for the fact that Sephiroth pretty much conned everybody without having to "actually" be there lol.

 

[entripy]

Thanx, ive just started that one up a few days ago, i didnt get far tho ...

I personally think that the whole Yevon thing was a fantastic con, i mean, they fooled the ENTIRE PLANET into trusting Yevon, and then we find out he is pure evil ... i think thats a good villain

And also with FFX, the fact that the monster Sin is Tidus's FATHER, it creates a kind of win-lose relationship between them, which leaves Tidus in a predicament dusnt it!

Apart from that, Sephiroth is probably the most evil, cept maybe Ultimecia, she was awful ....

 

[Ilyena]

Bringing up the Kingdom Hearts Sephiroth is the most ridiculous notion ever, please refrain from KH Sephiroth, as that is not even the Cannon Sephiroth to begin with.

Concur.

Btw, I have seen this Kefka bandwagon as well, I do infact know people who like him for reasons that can be justified, however what I don't agree with is ranking an antagonist simply because of Kill Count. Most great antagonist, infact some of the best antagonist ever created do not have a massive kill count, which is what I was pointing too.

If that doesn't change their opinion, then cool, but have more reason to you opinion which is what I am saying. Which is my statement of opinions not holding any water.

I understand where you're coming from and I agree that a massive kill count does not a great antagonist make. But the thing about opinions is they aren't always rational. And people don't always formulate their opinions the same way.

Vise Versa, but I guess some people like simplicity over complexity.

This is very true. I have actually met people who prefer a simple villain with virtually no motive at all to a complex, interesting character. Whatever floats their boat, I suppose.

Kefka is from Final Fantasy VI I forget the Japanese number though >.>

The Japanese number is VI. It was originally released in the US as III.

 

[DarioRusso]

A Deeper Kefka

People are really defending Kefka poorly, and TrueSephiros, I can understand why you as well as many others are generally aggravated when most people are simply claiming Kefka is awesome because he has a high kill count or better achieved his goals.

I like Kefka a great deal as a villain and I’ll explain myself in a civilized and coherent fashion. I find that Kefka actually has a great deal of depth when you look at him, especially at his final speech. For a great deal of the game Kefka is unrelentingly evil, seemingly inhuman in his detachment from the mayhem he is causing and even taking pleasure in it, however his mind set becomes crystal clear before the final fight.

"Why do people rebuild things they know are going to be destroyed? Why do people cling to life when they know they can't live forever? Think how meaningless each of your lives is!/Why do you build, knowing destruction is inevitable? Why do you yearn to live, knowing all things must die?" - Kefka Pallazo

Kefka proves himself to be the ultimate nihilist, a man after Nietzsche’s own heart. There is a certain cold logic in his argument, albeit twisted and disturbing from our point of view. He does have a point though, what is the point of living, it always ends in death? Joy will eventually lead to unhappiness one day, doesn’t hope make it all the more painful when our dreams are destroyed? These kinds of thoughts were prevalent in post World War I Europe, which the Gestahl Empire that Kefka grew up in takes more than a few influences from. We do not have to agree with his position to see that it is a position a person could have, and historically many have shared Kefka’s theory. (Hitler was a avid fan of Nietzche, as was many members of the Nazi party)

"Life... dreams... hope... Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things... I am going to destroy!" - Kefka Pallazo

Kefka is different from Sephiroth in that Sephiroth ultimately though he was making the world a better. Kefka on the other hand seems to be fed up with the contradictions of the world and would rather destroy all the hopes, dreams, and life on the planet by inflicting pain on the world. In many ways Kefka seems to be getting his revenge on a world that doesn’t make sense to him, like the columbine shooters or Charles Whitman, but instead of firing a rifle from a bell tower Kefka shoot his light of judgement from his own tower made of the remains of Vector, his former home.

Along these lines Kefka seems to be a rejection of the norms of society, not only in his nihilistic view of the world, but in his bawdy clothes, his face makeup, and his sardonic and sadistic sense of humor. Both Sephiroth and Kefka are a psychoanalyst’s dream (or nightmare) as their behaviors, dress, and final forms (which were remarkably similar I might add) hint towards much deeper problems.

Power-wise, I think that if Sephiroth had succeeded in his plan to absorb the life stream he would have become the same kind of entity Kefka was at the end of FFVI (the resemblance between their last two final forms is uncanny), as Kefka had essentially done the same thing by absorbing all the magic in the world. Also I would like to point out that absorbing the life stream was Sephiroth’s main goal, destroying all life was just a nice side effect from his method of achieving his goal, while Kefka became the source of all magic by disrupting the warring triad. Both were essentially the same goal that was going to be achieved through different means. Also I got the feeling that Kefka a toying with the world of ruin and its residents, he could have theoretically blasted every city with the light of judgement but instead he seemed more intent on keeping them in constant fear and depression. Even before the final battle he playfully tosses the party around before actually fighting them, and even as he is approaching death in his final form he feels the need to laugh at the party, almost as if he is having fun.

Which of them you like better, Kefka of Sephiroth, comes down to personal preference, both are extremely well made characters (just that you have to think about Kefka a little more) that share as many similarities has they have differences. Ultimately it boils down to this: Sephiroth was an optimist, believing to the end that all the pain and suffering he caused would eventually lead to a better world for him and his kind/mother; Kefka was Pessimist, believing that man and life itself was essentially a disgusting contradiction that he had to destroy.

Despite the fact that I like Kefka better I still find Sephiroth to be an intriguing video game character, albeit confusing during some of his later rants. I just thought that I should give some of you a different perspective on Kefka.

 

[stonercola]

Quite honestly, I'm bored with the Sephiroth hype. I think it is more a question of relating more to other people when it comes to fandom. Just my opinion, my two cents. His concept art is nice, but later on I consider they surpassed it.

As for Kuja, he may not be the most rotten in the bunch, but I don't think he's a Seph knock off, and I'm personally not creeped out by his femme-appeal.

I think Kefka is the best villain, if not tied with or closely followed by Kuja. People sould give FF9 a chance and actually play it, rather than _____ about how the graphics are. Come to think of it, I haven't seen a valid explanation why people skip it. HELLO, FF10?

 

[UltimaFantasy2007]

I agree with stonacola.

I loved Kuja, he was a great villain, from his first cutscene (in Burmecia) he just looked formidable and very mysterious. I was intrigued and wanted to know more. His smile at the scar caused by Bahamut just said it all really; he was that powerful that he was pleasently surprised that the legendary king of dragons was able to land a hit, let alone wound him. He was a calm character, but a calm that spoke a lot of words.
FFIX is one of my best in the series, it's traditional art style and concept of kingdoms, kings, queens, mages etc. was great; as was the music, which complimented the style beautifully.

People skip it because they say it's too 'kiddy', which I find extremely stupid really. It's not 'kiddy', whatever that means. It's a FF game, plain and simple. If people are trying to say that they're too hardcore to play a game that features youths, or a more chibi art style then I feel for them, really. IX was a superb addition, and people who haven't played it yet...should.

 

[Epsilon]

I just cant find it in me to finish IX due to the fact that I really dont want the story to end lol. But back on topic..

There are many points to be made on everyones behalf on their favorite villian, mine being Sephiroth for an ungodly reason in which I'll happily explain if asked. Neither can really justify a good point in which one beats ou the other without being closed minded about the other villians goals and achievements. So in a sense its not possible to have a villian of villians unless the villian is actually alive after the game is over and of course the villian is never defeated and the world ends, blah blah blah lol.

 

[DarioRusso]

@UltimaFantasy2007,
Kuja is certainly a well developed and intelligent character, however in the end he essentially apologizes for everything he did before he died, which always rubbed me the wrong way; I prefer a villain who stick to their beliefs, even after they’ve been beaten severely. Worse is the fact that he isn’t even the final boss of the game, Mr. (SURPRISE!) Necron is. Also I think many people are put off by his metro sexual clothing and tendency to make poetic monologues at odd points during the narrative. Still he’s better than late-to-the-party villains Emperor Mateus, Cloud of Darkness, Zemus, Exdeath, Ultimecia, and most definitely Necron.

 

[Bei Bei]

I thought Kefka was the most evil of all the villains. I didn't see a lot of villains that would take the same measures as he did just to get where he was at. Plus the fact that he earned his power the way he did makes him a little more feared and more capable to do more evil I think

 

[stonercola]

@ DarioRusso.

Repenting from one's sins is not seen as weak or less evil, and at least it didn't turn me off. He's just a normal creature with feelings, as tough as they may be. I was very attracted by his realization of his mistakes, and it surely touches the players of the game. Come on, it would suck to be a puppet.

I`m glad someone agreed with me, though. As soon as I go back home for Thanksgiving break, I`m re-playing the whole thing. Mmm.

 

[Lionheart3k]

Kefka is completely 1-Dimensional, he's nothing but a completely watered down form of The Joker, who tries to act like he's a DBZ villain.

TrueSephiros:

This cracks me up, there was a discussion in the FFIX forum about Kuja being a greater antagonist than Sephiroth. What happened? You came barging in claiming that Kuja was trying to act like a DBZ Villian, and The Joker..are you just going to compare every antagonist who is claimed superior than Sephiroth with The Joker or DBZ Villians?

Also pointed out by someone else here, i don't understand how you can totally dismiss other peoples opinions, and say that they need real arguments to back their opinion. If they were making a statement claiming it to be true then you can say they need their facts.

IMO Kuja is far superior to any antagonist from the Final Fantasy series, he appealed to me more, and i'm a guy who prefers melee to magic, Kuja only used magic. I have never played FFVI so i cannot comment on Kefka, although i will buy it as soon as i can. As for Sephiroth, he is a one-dimensional character, and your saying that you cant compare antagonists by Pure-Evil..all Sephiroth is, is pure evil. All he talks about is becoming one with the planet, gaining the black materia, summoning meteor etc. Kuja is virtually the same, all he talks about is becoming ruler etc, but he has humour. And to argue the point that Sephiroth controls people, well hardly..he controls his clones and Cloud. Whereas Kuja controls real people, and not by diving into their mind etc, with just words.

I would even rank Seymour above Sephiroth, Seymour probably has the most character out of all antagonists i've seen in FF. He bonds with each and every character. You said you cant judge an antagonist by Kill-Count or Evilness, and that character plays a larger part. Well Seymours Kill-Count is very low, and doesent come across in anyway evil at times. It's almost like hes taking the piss out of your characters. Later on however he does become very evil. He even kissed one of the main characters..this guy has way more character and depth than any antagonist, especially Sephiroth, so everything your saying would lead to Seymour being the better antagonist. But your opinion is that Sephiroth is is a better antagonist, so don't slate other people and tell them their opinions are wrong when your is only an opinion and not solid facts to what you are claiming.

 

[Pineapplenipple]

You said you cant judge an antagonist by Kill-Count or Evilness, and that character plays a larger part.

Ok maybe Kill-Count isn´t the best argument but why not Evilness? C´mon most of the bad guys are evil so the one who would be the villain of the villains would be the most evil one. I think better question would be "which villain appeals to you most?" or "why villains appeal to you?"

I you could measure Evilness I say Ex-death wins easily. He is also mind-controlling people, he was so powerful that Dawn warriors couldn´t destroy him just sealed his powers, he can just easily pull every place he wants to Void, he is almost constanly trying to kill heroes.

Only thing Ex-death lack is personality which Kefka, Sephiroth, Kuja and Seymor all have. But then again Ex-death has the most kick ass theme, I don´t mean the one which plays during battles I mean the one usually playing when he sucks towns to Void.

 

[Lionheart3k]

Ok maybe Kill-Count isn´t the best argument but why not Evilness? C´mon most of the bad guys are evil so the one who would be the villain of the villains would be the most evil one. I think better question would be "which villain appeals to you most?" or "why villains appeal to you?"

I agree that evilness does come into play, and kill-count can come into play as well, you have to look at every aspect of an antagonist. And TrueSephiros isn't doing that, he's saying that you can't, no matter what, judge an antagonist by kill-count or evilness. "Why villains appeal to you" would be a more appropriate discussion.

 

[Scarlet]

I agree that evilness does come into play, and kill-count can come into play as well, you have to look at every aspect of an antagonist. And TrueSephiros isn't doing that, he's saying that you can't, no matter what, judge an antagonist by kill-count or evilness. "Why villains appeal to you" would be a more appropriate discussion.

Yes, you're right. "Why villains appeal to you" would be a much better discussion. All I've been seeing a back and forth: "No your wrong, Kefka is better! No your wrong, Sephiroth is better! No your wrong, Kuja is better!

Although immorality is a major factor when it comes to villains, but there is always a flaw. Sephiroth WAS defeated three times by Cloud, and his party. When Cloud threw Sephiroth in the mako pit, at the end of FFVII, and in Advent Children. Sephiroth does have the power to defeat Cloud, so how come Sephiroth doesn't he use his full power? To toy around with Cloud and for Square to continue to have a happy ending? That is weak. In fact that is just like a DragonBall Z villain or you could say a cliche villain. A villain holding back true power is rather pathetic if you ask me.

Another factor, Kefka's World of Ruin was just that, a World of Ruin. Yet, surprisingly, a world in which people could still rebuild and continue on with life, most importantly, they still had hope.

Yes but the world was dying. Survivors were still struggling to live but at the same time everything else was dying around them. Eventually everyone was going to die. Kefka ruled the planet for year, anyone who refuses to worship him were killed. Kefka did achieve godhood, Sephiroth didn't, he almost did. You could say Sephiroth did when he became Safer Sephiroth.

Kefka was a nasty individual. His motive was greed and power. Kefka used people and espers, afterwards he would despose them as trash. Kefka giggle at the fact he was poisoning Doma. A small, civilized national. Kefka killed innocent people because he felt like it.

You can call Kefka and Kuja one-dimentional all you want but your not considering that fact that Sephiroth is also a one-dimentional villain. *Gasp* How is Sephiroth mulit-dimentional? You only see two sides to Sephiroth. When Sephiroth was a normal General of Shinra and when Sephiroth went crazy.

Sephiroth on the other hand WENT CRAZY. If Sephiroth wasn't injected by Jenova cells and he would have live a normal life, or did not find out about himself being an experiment he would have live a normal life. Sephiroth would continue to be a hero, and a role model for young men.

You keep comparing Kefka to DragonBall Z villains and saying Kefka is one dimentional just like a DragonBall Z villains. Funny, I think Cell and Sephiroth are rather similar to each other. Cell was created by Dr.Gero, same creator as the androids. He created Cell to become the perfect Warrior. Cell is to destory the world and become a god and what not. Cell was almost immortal you could say. The only way to kill him is by killing every single cell in his body. Like Sephiroth, Hojo inject Sephiroth with jenova cells so Sephiroth can become a super solider for Shinra. Sephiroth sounds similar to Cell.

So when did Sephiroth took absolute control over the world? When meteor was about to kill the planet? He didn't at the end.

You can keep saying Sephiroth is teh best villain evar! That still doesn't change that fact that fans believe that Kefka and Kuja were a better villain overall. In MY OPINION, I believe Kefka was a better villain than Sephiroth.

 

[Rydia]

I keep noticing that there have been a lot of "Kefka is the best!" or "No Sephiroth is better!"

So this is a thread to defend who you think the best Final Fantasy villian.

If you respond to this thread you must post reasons for why you feel that a certain villian is superior to the rest. And resons such as "Becauz he rawks!" or "He's hawt!" do not count. Such posts will be deleted.

And when other people post, you can challenge their reasoning.

It doesn't necessarily have to be the final boss in the game. (Because in some cases they come out of no where)

And it has to be a character, not a certain type of monster. So tonberries, Malboros, Cactaur, ect... do not count.

No flaming in this thread.

Oh and this is also a "Who is the best villian" debate. Not a "Who can kick who's ass."

 

[Warbsywoo]

This is hard but I'll have to say Sephiroth. Not only did he want to end the world and become master of it, he did so in a way that contributed to the whole terrifying kind of atmosphere that FFVII offered. Sure the other villains thought the same, but I think Sephiroth made the best impression.

 

[Rydia]

I would have to say that the best villian is Kefka. He is by far the most brutal villian in Final Fantasy. Not only did he kill the most people but he also ruled over the world and put everyone in fear of him. And entire town was instantly destroyed for rebelling against him.

Kefka was brutal. When the empire forces invaded Doma, he poisoned the water killing everyone inside the castle including the women and children.

Kefka is the only villian to truly accomplish his goal. He is the only villian who managed to destroy the world. Afterwards, he ruled over the world as a God for an entire year before the Returners assembled back together.

Kefka also had the biggest affect on all the playable characters. He had one under a mind control and forced her to commit brutal acts. Another he drove to commit (an unsuccessful) suicide. One could possibly die. One is forced to flee his kingdom in order to support the rebellion, and another loses his entire family in an attack.

The most disturbing aspect of Kefka is that he commits all these acts and laughs afterwards.

Even after he is defeated, the world was forever changed by his actions, and these affects will be felt long after the game ends.

 

[Rockman X]

Rydia speaks the truth

However, I still think Kuja ties with Kefka. Reasons:

1. He doesn't think anything of life.
2. He's manipulative and has a once-benevolent queen go on a genocide and conquer the surrounding territories.
3. He turns souls into black mages used for war and puts them into production in a factory.
4. When he finds out his origin, instead of losing his mind like Sephiroth, he's sane enough to see the irony of it and merely alters his plan.

I could go on but I shan't. Now...I also happen to think Seymour is a really good villain. He's truly messed up in the head and genuinely thinks destroying life will save it. Whenever I play X, my feelings for him will alternate from feeling sorry for him to hating him to feeling sorry for him again.

 

[Rydia]

Kuja is by far the most underrated villian. Everyone pretty much sees that he has a thong on and goes "ew! he sucks!" And they completely ignore pretty much all the chaos he cause in the game. I put him slightly behing Kefka, and I mean slight.

I think Sephiroth is way overrated. All he really did was destroy a town, stab a girl in the back, and send meteor towards the planet, which was destroyed and did not cause any real destruction. Compared to Kefka and Kuja, that almost seems minor. Rufus was a more effective villian than Sephiroth.