Who is the best Final Fantasy villian?

[Nami]

Sometimes I really wonder if my best friend is a cause for a lot of Kefka's recent popularity.

He's the Kefka cosplayer on Youtube, and I can't go to a forum, or talk to that many FF6 fans, who haven't seen his videos before.

*GASP* You know the Kefka cosplayer?! Oh, I've always wanted to meet him! He does so well playing Kefka.

And I agree, plenty of gamers today are such shallow graphics whores that they don't even wanna go near 16 or 32 bit graphics. I suppose it's partially game developers' faults though, alot of times actual story/characters/good gameplay are traded off for shiny graphics and pretty characters. It's much easier to be a fanboy over a bishounen with long flowing hair and a 6 ft sword than it is a tiny pixelated clown with a synthesized laugh.

Kefka's synthesized laugh is still creepy, though. I don't care what anyone says. *Cowers in fear*

This thread makes me want to play Final Fantasy IX so I can see what Kuja's like.

the coolest villain is choas FF1 and whats its name from dawn of souls FF2

I remember Chaos made a marked impression on me as a child. I haven't reached him myself, though. I can't figure out why I can't buy more spells for my mages.

That reminds me... I HATED that mission where the king sends me into a cave filled with legions of tough monsters and even tougher magicians. I barely make it out of the cave alive... and the king repays me by transforming into a dark elf and trying to kill me. Grr. I'm so glad I got beat up enough in the cave to have to use a tent before seeing the king.

 

[Contra Fates]

*GASP* You know the Kefka cosplayer?! Oh, I've always wanted to meet him! He does so well playing Kefka.

He's my best friend. xD Oddly enough, I met him at my first anime convention a couple of years back. I was walking to the con and I heard this...laugh. And was like: "Wait a second, is that....holy shit, it's Kefka!"

Later in the con he came up to me with a vial in his hand and goes: "Excuse me, imbecile, do you know where your town's water supply is?" I went: "Yes, I'll lead you to the water utilities!" He broke character and laughed. xD We've been close friends since then.

He's a really nice guy. He might be a perfect Kefka cosplayer, but...he's surprisingly down to earth out of the costume.

Sorry for off-topicness.
Kefka's still the best villain.

 

[Valkyrur]

Can't help pointing out that... Hey, Contra Fates and lol. It appears you've moved out of topic...?

I thought it was Kefka, with his typically funny speeches. In terms of badness, evil and the like, his poisoning of everyone in Doma is proof already.

 

[Hippie Kev]

I've always been keen on Seifer and Co as villians. Obviously, not because they were horribly bad-ass, had destroyed the world, had plans to destroy the world etc etc.

These guys clearly pale in comparison to the likes of Sephiroth, for instance, in terms of actual damage dished up and evil intent.

To me Seifer, Raijin and Fujin were excellent villians because they had believable characters and were often torn between doing the right and wrong thing.

Often they would go ahead with something 'evil' in the belief that it was the right thing to do - Example: Raijin and Fujin sticking with Seifer due to their bond, despite the actions of Seifer.

Seifer also had fantastic emotional issues which is often linked to the supposed villian, much like Sephiroth I suppose. Seifer too just wanted to get back at the world due to his own shortcomings. He also welcomed the acceptance he received from Ultimecia which he didn't get from SeeD.

This "human-ness" and depth made the characters all that more believable to me and so the perfect villian, on the wrong tracks due to life circumstances but with the buried will to be a good person still present.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

You know, I'm going to break character myself and make an extremely short post in the midst of extremely long posts. No exceedingly long walls of text from me today, guys. Feel free to tune in next time, though. I'm sure I can whip up an elitist-ish rant for you all later.

I'm sure you have seen him, he's pretty well-known. Plus I swear to god he's the real-life Kefka.

That video makes Kefka tied with Sephiroth for second-best villain in my eyes.

Though they both still pale in comparison to Kuja. See the quote in VengefulRonin's sig for details.

 

[Contra Fates]

Though they both still pale in comparison to Kuja. See the quote in VengefulRonin's sig for details.

Very true, what's said in his sig. xD When I was in my overhyped FFIX mode a few years back, I'd always go: "Thong-toting or not, Kuja destroyed a PLANET in a 45 second FMV! A PLANET!"

On a random note. Trance Kuja reminds me of the J-Rocker Kozi:

Nomura's a big fan of J-Rock, so, I wouldn't be too surprised if he took some influence from him for Trance Kuja. I know he created Lulu from a J-Rocker's outfit.

 

[Mephisto]

I haven't played FFVI * shame on me * so I can't really judge Kefka, but I have heard some things about him which would create a bad-ass characters, but this is all I can say about it..

Sephiroth from FFVII is way overrated, I don't know why is so popular. I don't hate him, he is quite nice and fits the atmosphere of FFVII. The way he killed Aeris was quite shocking. I haven't played any other games where an important characters gets killed. I found his dialogues with Cloud interesting.

VIII, Ultimecia. To be honest I haven't beaten the game yet. I was at Disc 4 but I stupidly erased my memory card! After that I didn't really 'want' to start all over again. I tried more than a year ago, but I'm still in Balamb Garden. I'm planning to beat this game next summer, because I love the atmosphere and music. The only 'problem' is that I don't really like Drawing Magic. The system somehow makes me not use magic.

IX, Kuja the big boss. I liked him actually. I read there are many Kuja lovers around here. Most forums I've been to was Sephiroth all the way and it's nice to see something different. More important is that I agree that Kuja is as good as Sephiroth. His ideas were insane, which is nice. His appearance could have been better though. At least that's what I think.

I don't really know if I should see either Seymour or Sin as the main villain. I think Seymour is much more involved in the story you follow, Sin is just the end. I like his evil way of talking and the way he sort of manipulates people. Well done. His Aeon Anima is just great.

XII. A big letdown for me. Not just the (main) villain, but the game in general. I don't know what to think of Vayne and Venat. The story didn't appeal to me at all. I could barely follow it because of it.

It turns out that the series has a nice amounts of good villains. Because I haven't played VI, I won't call Kefka the best. I haven't beaten VIII yet and I don't know if anything interesting happens on Disc 4. Not really much until the part I was at. The XII villains just suck in my humble opinion.

So that remains Sephiroth, Kuja and Seymour. I truly think they are all great enemies. They have their pros and cons but I can't really say I dislike one more than the other. It just changes when I play a game. When I play VII, I like Sephiroth, with IX it's Kuja. All villains fit the stories.

 

[Scarlet]

Yeah I know, Kozi is awesome and so is your friend as Kefka.

Let's try to stay on topic here.

Oh by the way, Oathkeeper, your post on Kuja was awesome! XD

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Whoa...two people have my quote in their sigs. I can actually feel my self-esteem rising as we speak! Thank you both. *bow*

 

[Rydia]

I am surprised at all the support Kefka and Kuja are getting. I seriously thought this thread would end up being a Sephiroth fanboy thread with few arguing against.

 

[charliepanayi]

No from what I've seen on a lot of FF forums Sephiroth and Kefka seem to be evenly matched in terms of fans (with Kuja not far behind) XD


I'd say Kefka too, mainly because he gets all the best lines. His 'self help booklet' rant at the end of FFVI before the final battle is probably the best FF line ever, always has me in stitches. He's far more insane and manic than any other villain.

I do like Sephiroth and Kuja (Ultimecia isn't really around enough in FFVIII to be a great villain, though she makes a great final boss) but Kefka trumps them all.

 

[DKnight]

The only reason why Sephiroth is such a popular character is because he is the type of villain that men would go gay for. In all honesty the only reason Square ever used him (IMO) was because he had sex appeal.

Kefka had none of that going for him. he was just plain evil. and a bit conceited. but thats what made him so sinister.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

The only reason why Sephiroth is such a popular character is because he is the type of villain that men would go gay for. In all honesty the only reason Square ever used him (IMO) was because he had sex appeal.

Kefka had none of that going for him. he was just plain evil. and a bit conceited. but thats what made him so sinister.

Ahem...*cracks knuckles and clears throat*

As overrated as Sephiroth is, he most certainly has more going for him than sexual appeal. In case you haven't noticed, the vast majority of video-game characters and anime characters alike are created with sexual appeal in mind. Even pre-Final Fantasy VII, you can see bishounen-like characteristics in the male characters in Amano's art *coughCecilwearslipstickcough*. That's simply how it is and how it's been since the days of the Super Nintendo RPG. Just because we can see Sephiroth more clearly doesn't mean that he's any worse than Cecil or Locke when it comes to being a bishounen. Sex sells, and Square has always known it. Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with it so long as it doesn't detract from the quality of the character him/herself.

And, as stated, Sephiroth was a very original RPG villain at the time of his original conception. I know that must sound a bit surprising, considering there are lots of villains out there who are similar to Sephiroth nowadays, but that's just because every other video-game developer wants to try and outdo FF7. Back in 1997, however, villains like ExDeath were much more common. Sephiroth was among the first of his kind; an antagonist with a backstory, a personality, and a way of justifying his actions. He wasn't just a psycho (not that there's anything wrong with that, Kefka fans), he was a psycho with a reason for being a psycho. Though his execution could be considered primitive by our current standards, he was one of the first RPG villains who could be considered somewhat human.

Sephiroth was basically the first RPG villain who was personally involved in the backstories of some of the main characters, as well, which, naturally, added quite a bit of emotion to his interaction with the party. He wasn't just some shadowy figure who showed up one day and tried to take over the world. He was directly involved in Cloud's descent into insanity, killed Tifa's father, was the son of Vincent's lover, fought in the Wutai war, and was the pride and joy of a company that Red XIII, Cid, and Barret have personal grudges against. The party had reasons for stopping him other than "We've got to save the world because we're just AWESOME PEOPLE!"

What's more, Square really did a wonderful job of making the player fear Sephiroth. Pretty much every time he encounters your party, they're knocked off their feet in a matter of seconds. While Kefka certainly did a great job of making you hate him, Sephiroth succeeded in being genuinely intimidating. He was unstable- a true sociopath, and the player knew it. Though he wouldn't kill you on sight, one false move would undoubtedly lead to your death. The player gets the sense that anyone dealing with Sephiroth is treading on extremely thin ice.

Yes, Sephiroth's physical appearance does play a role in his popularity with the fangirls, but it's a very small role. It wasn't until around Advent Children that the barrage of CloudxSephiroth yaoi began popping up, and even I'm willing to agree that Advent Children was the beginning of the decline of Final Fantasy VII's quality. As far as the original FF7 script is concerned, Sephiroth brought a lot to the table in terms of personality and motivation. If not for him, who knows how long we would've been stuck with villains like ExDeath and Chaos, who, though intimidating, were impossible to truly hate because they were simply portrayed as mindless creatures whose only purpose is to be defeated by the party?

Indeed, Sephiroth has been overglorified by Square-Enix in pieces of the Compilation such as Crisis Core, Last Order, and Advent Children. However, his original appeal definitely did not come only from his sex appeal.

 

[Marshy]

O_O I dont think i can follow that up... But here i go...

My favourite Villian in FF was Sephiroth, seeing as i didnt get to far in games with Kefka and Kuja in them. Sephiroth had many things good about him. The story behind him, his design, and his personality were all great for me. He was definitly cool with his long sword and when

Spoiler

he stabbed aerith (sorry aerith fans i thought that was pretty cool. He just comes outta no where at all and stabs her. I lol'd

Another one of my favourite villians was Seymour from FFX. I thought his whole "Wanting to become sin" thing was pretty cool. He had a great personality and his design was great as well. To me, he comes as the second best villian in FF.

 

[DKnight]

Well my response to all that oathkeeper said is that to me a great villain is someone that you just love to hate. Sephiroth was not that for me. He was someone that gave you a reason to feel sorry for him. Yeah he had an excuse, but makes him a hero in his own mind. he wanted things to be how he thought they should, but was easily manipulated.
And sorry to tell you, but Sephiroth's personality is not an origional idea square came up with. It was just the first time anyone ever thought of using it in a game. I had seen it many times in comic books and such wasy before VII.
Oh and for my second pick for best villain is Rufus, because he is just a guy you can't hate. I cheered when he was seemingly killed by the weapon.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Well my response to all that oathkeeper said is that to me a great villain is someone that you just love to hate. Sephiroth was not that for me. He was someone that gave you a reason to feel sorry for him. Yeah he had an excuse, but makes him a hero in his own mind. he wanted things to be how he thought they should, but was easily manipulated.

It's simply foolish to assume that, just because a villain has a way of justifying his actions, you can't hate him, as well. Kuja proves this. Gendo Ikari (Evangelion) proves it. Vicious (Cowboy Bebop) personifies it. I fail to see how Sephiroth doesn't qualify as a villain who the average player loves to hate. He murders, destroys, and burns anything and everything that stands in his way, takes every possible chance to torment Cloud, and basically sends the entire planet into a state of terror by summoning Meteor. The only difference is that Sephiroth has some sort of explanation for it. At no point did I say that anyone would feel sorry for Sephiroth. I certainly don't. However, he isn't just some nameless wizard in a black cloak who one day decides to commit mass homicide for the lulz, which only serves to make him a more complex antagonist.

I know I've used this analagy in another thread, but it is quite accurate. By your logic, all villains should revert to the stereotypical 1920's look, shouting out "I'LL GET YOU IF IT'S THE LAST THING I DO! MWAHAHAHA!" as the tweak their mustache and adjust their monocle. Villains need some sort of motivation to be truly taken seriously. Otherwise, they're just another generic psychopath who takes pleasure in impaling orphans for no apparent reason. There's nothing intimidating about that. It's just 2-dimensional and signifies laziness on the part of the director. While it might've been fine back in the 80's, right now it just comes across as incredibly cheap.

I mean, why do you think villains like Hannibal Lector are so frightening? It's because they're human. They force us to realize just how corruptable the human soul really is. The stereotypical psycho running around slaughtering babies for no reason is no longer intimidating and is becoming increasingly difficult to genuinely hate. That's because we know that there are absolutely no similarities between him and the average human being. A realistically portrayed villain, however, gets us thinking. Such an antagonist inspires much more emotion than the 2-dimensional psychopath.

Look at it this way. What's better: a story that inspires hatred, or a story that inspires sorrow, sympathy, happiness, fear, deep thought, AND hatred at the same time? Say what you will, but the vast majority of viewers will choose the second story every time. It's the same way with villains themselves.

And sorry to tell you, but Sephiroth's personality is not an origional idea square came up with. It was just the first time anyone ever thought of using it in a game. I had seen it many times in comic books and such wasy before VII.

Exactly. It was the first time anyone thought of using it in a video-game. Though it had been used countless times in comic books and anime, no RPG had a villain like Sephiroth. The fact that someone like him was included in an RPG showed that the industry was evolving and perhaps beginning to catch up with other media in terms of storylines and character development. I never said that Sephiroth's personality was an original idea of Square's, but the prospect of incorporating it into an RPG was orginally their idea.

One last thing. Keep in mind, Kefka fans, that this isn't aimed at you. I still firmly believe that Kefka is a great villain even if he lacks depth. His entertaining personality makes up for that. I'm not looking to start a Sephiroth vs. Kefka argument here.

 

[Grand Lethal]

On a random note. Trance Kuja reminds me of the J-Rocker Kozi:

Nomura's a big fan of J-Rock, so, I wouldn't be too surprised if he took some influence from him for Trance Kuja. I know he created Lulu from a J-Rocker's outfit.

O_O Before I read your post, I thought that was a Kuja Cosplay ...
Anywho: *SLAP* How dare thee! Nomura lacks the brilliance to design Kuja. Amano did that T_T But thou shall be forgiven for rocking, and having friends that rock at Cosplay =D (Seriously, your friend is awesome as Kefka)

WALL OF TEXT

Kuja is my favourite villain. I can't really see the appeal behind Sephiroth, but I'm only at the end of Disk 1, so perhaps SOMETHING will happen to make me like him ...

Kuja always seemed masculine to me, even when I first played this game when I was ten years old. His presence was feared, even from when you first see him in the FMV at Burmecia. He got all the poetically brilliant lines. His blend of elegance and destruction is masterful, and he can openly wear a thong-looking item of clothing and still be baddass? Pwnage.
The narcissistic Genome hit all the right spots for me: ruthless, cunning, destructive and manipulative, but he isn't one-dimensional LIeK IMA Gunn@ KIlL teH w0Rld nao kThxbai-villains. He didn't freak out and go mental at his discovery of his true origins, and of his death. He changed his agenda, which I don't think we truly know, into destroying everything. Not just the world. Everything.

His quote (my sig) displays his vanity in that he believes he should be the reason that people live, so that if he should die, they should be dragged down with him. He maipulated a benevolent Queen into a violent war that nearly amounted into triple-genocide across a continent. His magical prowess was extraordinary. He took a Mega Flare to the face from Bahamut, the second most powerful Eidolon in the game, and escaped with little more than a bleeding scratch?

In my opinion, his twisted and cunning plans, such as using his brotherly bond to Zidane as a means of manipulating him to get the Gulug Stone, while at the same time keeping his friends captive and planning on killing them even if Zidane succeeded, made me think of Kuja as a true villain. He doesn't give away his plans - we didn't know what the Gulug Stone was for. And he did away with force that opposed him. His forcefully ripped the Gulug Stone from Zidane's hands and continued with his schemes.

He truly is evil. He kidnaps a six-year-old child, puts her through a ritual that may well kill her, all in the pursuit of power. He uses the souls of the dead and reanimates them with his own foul magic to create the Black Mages, and army of bloodthirsty magical powerhouses. Imagine the soul of a loved one, twisted and reanimated and put against you? Evil. Bastard.

But at the same time, we understand his fear of death. We empathize with him, but at the same time we hate him for all that his has been responsible for: near genocide, murder, destruction, manipulation, decimation of his home planet (he could have killed hundreds of his own brethren). Did he care? No.

In the end, he had a side not most villains have, a compassionate side. He wasn't evil for the hell of it. He wouldn't think of himself as evil in his twisted vain vision. He came clean, and realised what life was about: living. How many villains can face reality and admit that they were in the wrong? And considering Kuja's vain personality, this is a huge, huge development of character.

 

[Rydia]

Sephiroth was among the first of his kind; an antagonist with a backstory, a personality, and a way of justifying his actions.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there something about Kefka being experimented on with magacite and that is what made him go insane?

 

[Ryvius]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there something about Kefka being experimented on with magacite and that is what made him go insane?

I'm pretty sure it was his own will to be infused with the magacite power. I don't remember anything about that being what made him insane, but I'm not a final fantasy encyclopedia either.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there something about Kefka being experimented on with magacite and that is what made him go insane?

Ryvius is right. Even if it's not blatantly stated in the game, we are told that General Leo refused to be made a test subject for the magacite experiments. That being said, we can assume that the other two generals were free to refuse, as well. Besides, I believe Celes had the same experiments performed on her, and she obviously didn't turn out like Kefka. Of course, it's been a while since I played FF6, so I might be a little off there. Maybe Celes went through a slightly different/more thoroughly tested experiment. Either way, I'm positive about Leo refusing the experiments, so that point remains valid.