Who is the best Final Fantasy villian?

The_Oathkeeper said:
Again, I turn your attention to Kuja, who I personally believe should be a rolemodel for RPG Villains everywhere. Kuja was...a meanie. He was bad to the bone and he made sure you knew it. This was a man who would manipulate, destroy, and torture to get what he wanted. Yet, at the same time, he had motivation that we were made aware of. While he was certainly a terrible human, he was still human (well, technically, he was an Angel of Death, but you get where I'm going with this). You hated Kuja, but at the same time, you could sympathize with his plight, as well. He had a genuinely 3-Dimensional character that actually required thought to fully understand.
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I completely, 100% agree with everything you said here. <3 Sums my opinions up very well.
 
Haha, Kefka was pretty much that too. ;)
Can't stand Kefka at all though.
 
What I like about Vayne is that he didn't want World Domination (tm) or World Destruction (tm). He just wanted to take humanity's fate away from the Gods and back into the hands of man. He just went about it in the wrong way.
 
XII had no true villains as such, just numerous sides with different agendas of how to make the world a better place really.
 
The_Oathkeeper said:
Well, yeah, it is just a theory, but it's a theory that makes perfect sense. Necron is essentially the universe's reset button, after all. He only arrived because he had it in his head that humanity wanted to be returned to the 'zero world,' after all. Before the battle, he even says that Kuja's actions proved to him that humanity really didn't want to live for fear of dying...or something to that effect. I'd go into greater detail on the matter, but really, I don't think that I could do nearly as good a job of explaining it as the Plot Analysis in the Final Fantasy IX section on GameFAQ's. I agree that it was never really outright confirmed by the creators, but there is a lot of evidence to support it in the game and it is the theory that creates the least amount of plotholes.
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Well, the Plot Analysis you cite, by the somewhat famous Squall_of_SeeD has him voicing he thinks Necron was the Iifa Tree's true form.
Many theories abound.

esides, if you pay attention during the last battle against her, all that's left is...well...a black screen. There are no stars, no planets, nothing. The party is basically fighting Ultimecia in a black void completely lacking...err...anything. She didn't absorb the entire universe, but she absorbed enough of it to make the surrounding area look utterly desolate. That says that she at least absorbed the planet Earth and the surrounding planets.
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I always thought that too but you have to look at it realistically...we have no clue where the party was. If we go just on visuals, were the FFVII heroes really in some sort of Heaven when they fought Safter Sephiroth?
 
Well, the Plot Analysis you cite, by the somewhat famous Squall_of_SeeD has him voicing he thinks Necron was the Iifa Tree's true form.
Many theories abound.
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Okay, I'll give you that much. Though it's a theory that presents very few plotholes when compared to most of the other theories out there, it is still a mere theory. However, even without taking into consideration the fact that Kuja might've destroyed the crystal that gives life to...well...everything, you still have to remember that he destroyed Terra, which was just as much of a planet as the one Kefka destroyed. That, alone, at least puts Kuja on Kefka's level in terms of what he accomplished. Plus, before he even achieved Trance, Kuja sent the three major kingdoms of the world into utter chaos and almost brought about a world war of sorts, if I remember correctly. So, basically, that's two worlds that Kuja majorly screwed up (one of which he destroyed) compared to Kefka's one.

I always thought that too but you have to look at it realistically...we have no clue where the party was. If we go just on visuals, were the FFVII heroes really in some sort of Heaven when they fought Safter Sephiroth?
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Actually, in FFVII, I believe the arena they fought Safer Sephiroth in was simply an area of highly concentrated/abundant Lifestream that just happened to resemble heaven. You see them falling into some sort of crevice after defeating Bizarro Sephiroth, which I can only assume is supposed to mean that they were falling deeper into the Planet. So, no, I wouldn't say that Cloud and co. were in a heaven by any means, but the environment in which they fought Safer Sephiroth most certainly did exist. It was just Lifestream rather than clouds and whatnot. The same can be said for any other boss in the Final Fantasy series or even RPG's in general. The final bosses are most always fought in an actual, physical arena that's supposed to represent where the characters are (storyline-wise) at the time of the battle itself.

That being said, I don't really see what else the black screen could've represented or why Square would've chosen that particular environment if it had no significance plot-wise. I mean, really, if you're going for strictly aesthetic appeal, why put the characters in the middle of a black void? If Square was just trying to create a "cool" arena for the characters to fight Ultimecia in, they probably would've just thrown around a bunch of swirling psychadelic colors or something. It's fairly obvious that the black screen meant something, and since Ultimecia was, at the time, in the process of absorbing time and space, I'm guessing it was supposed to represent that.
 
Okay, I'll give you that much. Though it's a theory that presents very few plotholes when compared to most of the other theories out there, it is still a mere theory. However, even without taking into consideration the fact that Kuja might've destroyed the crystal that gives life to...well...everything, you still have to remember that he destroyed Terra, which was just as much of a planet as the one Kefka destroyed. That, alone, at least puts Kuja on Kefka's level in terms of what he accomplished. Plus, before he even achieved Trance, Kuja sent the three major kingdoms of the world into utter chaos and almost brought about a world war of sorts, if I remember correctly. So, basically, that's two worlds that Kuja majorly screwed up (one of which he destroyed) compared to Kefka's one.
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Oh, I agree. Kuja is one of the strongest, and definitely the best, villain in FF.

That being said, I don't really see what else the black screen could've represented or why Square would've chosen that particular environment if it had no significance plot-wise. I mean, really, if you're going for strictly aesthetic appeal, why put the characters in the middle of a black void? If Square was just trying to create a "cool" arena for the characters to fight Ultimecia in, they probably would've just thrown around a bunch of swirling psychadelic colors or something. It's fairly obvious that the black screen meant something, and since Ultimecia was, at the time, in the process of absorbing time and space, I'm guessing it was supposed to represent that.
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Fair point. Like I said, I always thought it was a void representing the world Ultimecia would make.
 
personally, i like exdeath and kuja. these two were just badasses and they didnt care who got in their way, they killed them anyway! i dont understand why people like sephiroth so much...

i absolutely hated him, not just because he killed aeris, he seemed like a crack addicted psycho to me.

i really liked ultimecia, she could control people from her own time and she destroyed anyone she wanted. at some points, i almost thought she was invincible!
 
I found Ultimecia to be an incredibly cheap and generic villain, actually. That's mainly because we know nothing about her character, but you can tell from her dialogue that she's probably nothing more than a 2-Dimensional psychopath stock villain that we've seen before. Some might say that Squaresoft just wanted to leave a lot up to the imagination, but personally, I just think that it was laziness on their part. I mean, we don't even see Ultimecia in-person until we're actually about to fight her, at which point she completely ruins whatever character-depth she might've had by giving one of the most generic villain speech I've probably ever seen in a JRPG.

Yes, it is entirely possible that she had some sort of motivation besides "KILL EVERYTHING!" It is speculated that she was simply trying to destroy the humans who looked down on her and her fellow sorceresses, but this is blatantly contradicted by her actions. She didn't just want to create a new world where sorceresses were treated fairly, she wanted to destroy/absorb everything. That includes the very sorceresses she was supposedly trying to help. So...if she was trying to save the sorceresses from opression, why would she absorb them along with the rest of the universe?

I guess Ultimecia accomplished a lot, but she did so through very cliche means and without really displaying any personality at all aside from "Lawl, destruction is fun." Kefka, for example, is still a wonderfully enjoyable villain because of his simple entertainment value, which compensates for his lack of character depth. Ultimecia, however, doesn't even have any particularly unique or entertaining traits...or at least, if she does, we don't see them because of how little time the characters spend interacting with her. What's more, it's as if Ultimecia actually purposefully destroys whatever depth her character might've had by giving a horribly cliche speech just before you fight her.

As for ExDeath...I liked him, though it's in a nostalgic way. Yes, ExDeath's character lacks depth, but so does everything else in FF5. I think that ExDeath was supposed to be an homage to the classic RPG villain. You know, the powerful wizard trying to take over the world. I appreciate a little reference to "the good old days" every now and again. ExDeath, in short, reminds me of a simple time, before JRPGs even concerned themselves with character depth. He was just...a nice villain. He's nowhere near my favorite in the series, but I still liked him. There was beauty in his simplicity, you know?

i absolutely hated him, not just because he killed aeris, he seemed like a crack addicted psycho to me.
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This is what I don't understand, though. I don't mind that you don't like Sephiroth, but...crack addicted psycho? I'm afraid I don't understand. You do realize, of course, that the vast majority of Final Fantasy villains are insane in some way, right? Ultimecia herself is the very definition of "crack addicted psycho," the only difference between her and Sephiroth being that she completely lacks any sort of character depth to separate her from the rest of the 2-Dimensional sadists in the JRPG World. Of course not everyone is going to like Sephiroth, but could you maybe explain your reasoning behind this?
 
ok, he goes on a killing rampage because he found out something from a book written by professor ghast or hojo or whoever, and he starts ranting on about another thing, then he sets a whole town on fire and kills nearly everyone in the town!!! on top of that he goes to jenovas cell in the reactor and takes her out?! wtf, no offense to anyone who likes him, but i absolutely hate him and enjoy killing him in my games...
 
That sounds like a pretty insignificant reason to genuinely hate a villain, first off. Second, you should probably pay more attention if you should ever decide to play through Final Fantasy VII again. Your summary of the events that transpired in Nibelheim is both overly-simplified and a bit inaccurate. Yes, Sephiroth had lost his mind, but it isn't just because he "found a book written by Dr. Gast." Sephiroth had just found out that he was a monster in the most literal sense of the word. He discovered that the only reason he existed was so that he could be used as a weapon by ShinRa. Everything he'd been told was a lie, and his only purpose was to destroy. For that reason, Sephiroth tried to cope with that unpleasant discovery by convincing himself that he was superior to the human race.

As Sephiroth read more and learned about the Cetra, he rationlized that he must, in fact, be one of them. He found out about how the humans eventually ended up taking the Planet from the Cetra. The more he read, the less sane he became until he finally decided to take JENOVA (who he had been told was his mother and, by extension, a Cetra, herself) and go with her to The Promised Land...in the process, taking revenge on humanity. That's why he kills everyone in Nibelheim. Due to his total insanity, he wasn't thinking clearly and wiped out everyone in the town in a fit of psychotic rage.

And Sephiroth didn't kill JENOVA. She was already "dead," in a sense, by the time Sephiroth got there and was basically in some sort of permanent coma that prevented her from actually maintaining any sort of conscious mind. All Sephiroth did was cut off the head of a deceased alien who was acting on instinct alone. He did this because he didn't have the time or stamina to carry her body out of the Mako Reactor (seeing as how he had just been, you know...stabbed through the back with the Buster Sword). So, he severed her head to save himself some unneccessary effort. JENOVA can operate just fine with severed limbs. In fact, over the course of the game, Sephiroth cuts off one of her body parts and sends it to fight you multiple times (hence JENOVA Life, JENOVA Death, and JENOVA Synthesis), yet she functions just fine.
 
Sorceress Edea Kramer from VIII had this psychological twist on her character, as such you were powerless to defeat her. Especially when
Seifer defects
you feel that she has overwhelming power over the protagonists. Not saying that she was the best villain Square-Enix have ever produced but she's "up there"

-Sir Balthier
​
 
Yeah, I did actually enjoy Edea as a villain. She was certainly better than that cliche-ridden stereotype, Ultimecia, anyway. I definitely would've preferred that Square kept her as the primary antagonist for FFVIII, actually. She had a sort of "aura of villainy" about her. You could just look at her and say to yourself "This is who the main antagonist should be." She was always so cold, calculating, and in-control, yet it was plain to see that she was just batshit insane. Besides, it actually would've been a fairly interesting twist for the final boss of the game to be the woman who looked over the main characters when they were children.
 
The_Oathkeeper said:
Yeah, I did actually enjoy Edea as a villain. She was certainly better than that cliche-ridden stereotype, Ultimecia, anyway. I definitely would've preferred that Square kept her as the primary antagonist for FFVIII, actually. She had a sort of "aura of villainy" about her. You could just look at her and say to yourself "This is who the main antagonist should be." She was always so cold, calculating, and in-control, yet it was plain to see that she was just batshit insane. Besides, it actually would've been a fairly interesting twist for the final boss of the game to be the woman who looked over the main characters when they were children.
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Correction: That was actually Ultimecia possessing Edea. Not many people keep in mind that Ultimecia was there from the very beginning through Edea. She didn't just appear at the very end (Well, physically anyways).
 
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LordofInfinity said:
Correction: That was actually Ultimecia possessing Edea. Not many people keep in mind that Ultimecia was there from the very beginning through Edea.
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Good point. I had overlooked that, but...well...I suppose I just preferred Edea's presence to Ultimecia's. Edea had this majesty about her, you know? She looked like someone you'd expect to be the game's villain. I suppose there's really no argument here, because yes, Ultimecia was talking through Edea for the entire course of the game. It's just that, back when Ultimecia was possessing Edea, it was still reasonable to assume that her character might have had depth. This was before Ultimecia completely ruined it for herself by giving the most generic final boss speech to be found in modern Final Fantasy games (the "Kurse all SeeDs" speech) and by contradicting herself on several levels.

I guess my point is that Edea just had something that Ultimecia didn't. I know it was Ultimecia talking the whole time, but there's just something..."cooler" about her while she's still possessing Edea.

You are a very able writer for a 14 year old​

-Sir Balthier​
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I thank you for the compliment. It probably just comes from the time I spend surfing GameFAQs Final Fantasy forums, though, to be perfectly honest.​
 
The_Oathkeeper said:
That sounds like a pretty insignificant reason to genuinely hate a villain, first off. Second, you should probably pay more attention if you should ever decide to play through Final Fantasy VII again. Your summary of the events that transpired in Nibelheim is both overly-simplified and a bit inaccurate. Yes, Sephiroth had lost his mind, but it isn't just because he "found a book written by Dr. Gast." Sephiroth had just found out that he was a monster in the most literal sense of the word. He discovered that the only reason he existed was so that he could be used as a weapon by ShinRa. Everything he'd been told was a lie, and his only purpose was to destroy. For that reason, Sephiroth tried to cope with that unpleasant discovery by convincing himself that he was superior to the human race.

As Sephiroth read more and learned about the Cetra, he rationlized that he must, in fact, be one of them. He found out about how the humans eventually ended up taking the Planet from the Cetra. The more he read, the less sane he became until he finally decided to take JENOVA (who he had been told was his mother and, by extension, a Cetra, herself) and go with her to The Promised Land...in the process, taking revenge on humanity. That's why he kills everyone in Nibelheim. Due to his total insanity, he wasn't thinking clearly and wiped out everyone in the town in a fit of psychotic rage.

And Sephiroth didn't kill JENOVA. She was already "dead," in a sense, by the time Sephiroth got there and was basically in some sort of permanent coma that prevented her from actually maintaining any sort of conscious mind. All Sephiroth did was cut off the head of a deceased alien who was acting on instinct alone. He did this because he didn't have the time or stamina to carry her body out of the Mako Reactor (seeing as how he had just been, you know...stabbed through the back with the Buster Sword). So, he severed her head to save himself some unneccessary effort. JENOVA can operate just fine with severed limbs. In fact, over the course of the game, Sephiroth cuts off one of her body parts and sends it to fight you multiple times (hence JENOVA Life, JENOVA Death, and JENOVA Synthesis), yet she functions just fine.
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maybe i worded it wrong, i enjoy fighting sephiroth because hes an epic part of the story as is jenova, i just didnt like his behavior and personality, sorry bout before i was just typing out of anger i guess...
 
Well...no need to apologize, Atomos. I should probably apologize, seeing as how I was the one who misread your post in the first place. I suppose I'm just trying to stay on my toes in this thread, considering how much FF Fans like to hate Sephiroth for no good reason lately. It's apparently the new cool thing to hate Sephiroth and cling to Kefka for sake of being "nonconformist," so I try to keep my guard up. Guess it made me a little paranoid. >_>;
 
Necron at least was a better boss then Yu Yevon! Heck, he may have seemed a bit random, but at least he had something awesome and scary about him. As for Yu? Pfft. Jack shit.
 
Ahem...Necron was a giant space flea with the ability to reset all of existence as wel know it. That alone makes up for the fact that he's the second lamest plot device I've ever seen in a Final Fantasy game. It's just...I mean, how can you make fun of a giant omnipotent space flea?! Honestly, that's, like, the coolest idea in the history of JRPGs. You guys can have your evil wizards, supernatural swordsmen, and corrupt sorceresses from the future. I'm playing the game with the giant freakin' space flea.
 
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