Why the Final Fantasy VII Obsession Needs to End...Now.

[Starships]

Explain how they milked previous FF games, or even the ones after FF7. FF6 came out, that was it. FF4 came out, that was it. FF1 and Mystic Quest came out, that was it.

Final Fantasy IV Easy Type
Final Fantasy IV Japanese Original
Final Fantasy IV PlayStation
Final Fantasy IV GBA
Final Fantasy IV PSP
Final Fanatsy IV The After Years
Final Fantasy IV Complete PSP
Final Fanatsy IV DS
Final Fanatsy IV Wonderswan Colour

Final Fantasy I 2 GBA
Final Fantasy I 2 PSP
Final Fantasy I 2 IoS
Final Fantasy 1 2 Wonderswan Colour
Final Fantasy 1 2Mobile Phones
Final Fantasy 1 2 Android
Final Fantasy 1 2 PlayStation


And yes these count because they're completely different from the NES and SNES originals.

There wasn't some huge marketing campaign, nor spin off titles, or movies based on those games. They were released, very little marketing, and it was done and over with. None of the prior installments had 3 commercials, a minute long trailer, ads in comic books and major magazines, or partnered with major companies to get the word out there, and from what I can tell, marketing hasn't been that big for any other FF release..

Do you mean for FF VII or the games before FF VII ? Because

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARn2o4IsnJY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzdvSBoluQo&feature=related

^ This says Final Fantasy IX advert 4

What other features were in FF7 that weren't in prior installments? Aside from the Weapons as optional bosses (Final Fantasy 4 had the Giant of Babil walk across the overworld map,

The Giant of Babil is nothing the the Weapons. It was not a optional boss and it didn't have cousins to go around the world to defeat.

- Materia vs Espers. Very close in principle .

No it's not. Espers is more closer towards FF VIII's Junctioning. A Summon gives your characters different powers depending on the Summon. Ie Cerberus gives your characters good speed; Phantom gave your characters a chance to learn the ability to disappear and dodge physical attacks.

- Character Death? FF6 allowed Shadow to die if you didn't save him

Don't you mean Leo ? Hello ! You know the nice, peaceful yet honourable knight that was sadly and tragically betrayed by Kefka ? Hello ?! Remember him ?

- Shinra vs Ghestal Empire / Kefka vs Sephiroth

Sort of. Though Kefka went crazy because Ghestal wanted so, Sephiroth more went crazy because a evil sciencest *working* for that certain company wanted so, so there is a slight difference between them.

- Airship that you could control? Every previous FF

Till Final Fantasy X killed it. I think it was Tidus's laughing that did it. The Airship heard the laughing underground and became retarded so it needed some extra help to get moving.

Tidus : HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

FF X Airship : Oh god. Please stop. My engine is bleeding from the pain....
Vaan must of did the same thing in FF XII by just being alive and FF XIII who cares ? There was worse things to complain about.

- World map and large dungeons, check

Again till FF X killed it. Tidus's laughing must of done that too. Though the world was pretty big in FF XII.

- Submarine? FF3j had that as well

FF V had that too. Or did you forget that as well ? Leo must of owned that Sub then. Poor Leo.

- Summons? Yea... prior ones had those as well

FF3j Up did. Rydia was the first official summoner within the series.

I asked what, aside from the 3 or 4 I listed, you claimed many, I asked what and still have no answer. It's a genuine question.
What'd I misinterpret? If you're going to make accusations, at least post something worthwhile to add to that and, I don't know, fill me in on that?

Don't be mean. She's trying her best. You know. LEO FORGETTER !

 

[dra600n]

Final Fantasy IV Easy Type
Final Fantasy IV Japanese Original
Final Fantasy IV PlayStation
Final Fantasy IV GBA
Final Fantasy IV PSP
Final Fanatsy IV The After Years
Final Fantasy IV Complete PSP
Final Fanatsy IV DS
Final Fanatsy IV Wonderswan Colour

Final Fantasy I 2 GBA
Final Fantasy I 2 PSP
Final Fantasy I 2 IoS
Final Fantasy 1 2 Wonderswan Colour
Final Fantasy 1 2Mobile Phones
Final Fantasy 1 2 Android
Final Fantasy 1 2 PlayStation


And yes these count because they're completely different from the NES and SNES originals.

Wonderswan remakes shouldn't count since they're not released outside of Japan (unless you import them). Andriod and iOS should fall under the same category as mobile, since they're the same platforms (me just being nitpicky), and you also forgot the MSX remakes. Though, I will argue that FF4 Hard type and Easy type shouldn't count as "milking it" since Hard Type never came over until the PS1 remake, which you already counted. I did know about the After Years, and the mobile versions, but I didn't realize how many platforms they released it on.

Take out the ones that weren't around with the release of FF7 and all it's "glory", and you'd have a significantly less number of ports. I'm pretty sure with the decline in sales of their main franchise, they went and ported these over to generate more income off of old IP's rather than release a new one (look at the FFXIV debacle they had earlier this year, or was it last year?).

Do you mean for FF VII or the games before FF VII ? Because

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARn2o4IsnJY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzdvSBoluQo&feature=related

^ This says Final Fantasy IX advert 4

I was referring to FF7 and below. Almost every major title game got a commercial back then, but FF7 got 3, as well as ads in Playboy, Spin, and other highly sold magazines, including mentions in Marvel comics (might have been ad space, I'm not into comics).

The Giant of Babil is nothing the the Weapons. It was not a optional boss and it didn't have cousins to go around the world to defeat.

I wasn't referring to the Giant being like the Weapons in terms of being optional bosses, I was referring to the Giant as he was a large animated sprite on the world map, with a "cinematic" to go along with it. Wasn't the first Weapon a required fight anyway, and only the Ruby and Emerald were optional?

No it's not. Espers is more closer towards FF VIII's Junctioning. A Summon gives your characters different powers depending on the Summon. Ie Cerberus gives your characters good speed; Phantom gave your characters a chance to learn the ability to disappear and dodge physical attacks.

Yes, they are. You equip espers and based on the AP you get while having the esper equipped, you learn the spell. Very close to the materia leveling up. The only difference is that the magics go away when you remove the materia, and once you learn the spells from espers, you don't need it equipped anymore. They are very similar concepts, not identical, but very closely related.

Don't you mean Leo ? Hello ! You know the nice, peaceful yet honourable knight that was sadly and tragically betrayed by Kefka ? Hello ?! Remember him ?

I meant actual playable character deaths, but yes, you are 100% correct. I was using Shadow as a comparison to say that the death of Aeris wasn't a new concept in FF7 when it has been done before.

Sort of. Though Kefka went crazy because Ghestal wanted so, Sephiroth more went crazy because a evil sciencest *working* for that certain company wanted so, so there is a slight difference between them.

Ghestal didn't want Kefka to go purely insane, as I'm sure Ghestal himself didn't want to die. But yea, they're very similar in their characters themselves, not their backstory. Though, I do think Kefka is more sinister and evil than Sephiroth.

Till Final Fantasy X killed it. I think it was Tidus's laughing that did it. The Airship heard the laughing underground and became retarded so it needed some extra help to get moving.

Tidus : HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

FF X Airship : Oh god. Please stop. My engine is bleeding from the pain....
Vaan must of did the same thing in FF XII by just being alive and FF XIII who cares ? There was worse things to complain about.



Again till FF X killed it. Tidus's laughing must of done that too. Though the world was pretty big in FF XII.

I was purely stating things up to FF7, not after. FFX killed the free control airship, which I hated, but whatever - gotta choose your battles with the later released ones.

FF V had that too. Or did you forget that as well ? Leo must of owned that Sub then. Poor Leo.

Never made it that far in FF5. I hated ROM's back when it was the only way to play it, and the PS1 load times killed it. I have it for the GBA, but, I don't like handheld gaming, and I just recently got my FF5 reproduction cart for SNES, so once I'm done with the 2 games I'm playing now, I'll be starting that

And as for the summons, yep I wasn't sure about FF2j as I didn't get far into that one either (lost my memory card).

 

[Razberry Knight]

Porting it is hardly milking the title(s)

You claimed there were a lot of features specific to FF7. I asked what, aside from the 3 or 4 I listed, you claimed many, I asked what and still have no answer. It's a genuine question.

It's not self righteous questioning when the questions are being seriously asked. I'd like to know what features you think are so abundantly clear that were specific to FF7 at the time.

Materia and espers are both gameplay and story. I'm comparing them in their use and function in the gameplay, not story. What'd I misinterpret? If you're going to make accusations, at least post something worthwhile to add to that and, I don't know, fill me in on that?

If porting doesnt mean milking then final fantasy 7 hasnt been milked.

Im referring to gameplay. You mentioned shinra and sephiroth too hich really wasnt the point. It had a lot of minigames. Chocobo and racing and several more that didnt happen in gold saucer. Such as squats minigame or fending off shinra .

You already know the answer but you want a different one. Amd that just aint going to fly

 

[dra600n]

The Shinra/Ghestal empire was mentioned for similarities between FF6 and FF7.
Yes, FF7 had a lot of minigames, FF1 had the slider puzzle and FF2j has a matching game. FF6 you had to fend off the Empire twice in Narshe.

FF7 has been milked by the spin off titles that share the same name, as well as movies that share the same name. Aside from FF7 being rereleased on the PC and PSN, that's it. If porting was considered milking, then so wouldn't Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Doom, etc. All porting does is allows someone who doesn't have old hardware, or already has one system the ability to play the game. Imagine if every game for SNES and Genesis were purely exclusive, or 360 and PS3. It wouldn't make much sense.

And aside from minigames, and the amount of them, there's not that much unique to FF7, which was my point. But I am glad to know that you know what I'm looking for and what I already know. Makes this conversation pretty much over then, eh?

 

[Razberry Knight]

The Shinra/Ghestal empire was mentioned for similarities between FF6 and FF7.

but its not relevant. should we also say that final fantasy also over uses crystal themes? and orphans?

Yes, FF7 had a lot of minigames, FF1 had the slider puzzle and FF2j has a matching game. FF6 you had to fend off the Empire twice in Narshe.

ff1 and 2 were remade to have those minigames, they weren't in the original versions.

FF7 has been milked by the spin off titles that share the same name, as well as movies that share the same name. Aside from FF7 being rereleased on the PC and PSN, that's it. If porting was considered milking, then so wouldn't Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Doom, etc. All porting does is allows someone who doesn't have old hardware, or already has one system the ability to play the game. Imagine if every game for SNES and Genesis were purely exclusive, or 360 and PS3. It wouldn't make much sense.

what do you mean by "doesn't make sense"

And aside from minigames, and the amount of them, there's not that much unique to FF7, which was my point. But I am glad to know that you know what I'm looking for and what I already know. Makes this conversation pretty much over then, eh?

Then Final Fantasy IV, V, X, XII, and XIII have been milked. Also, i know what you been looking for, but you haven't really provided a strong point. The vast ammount of minigames made the game that much diverse.

The spin offs and films may not be the best games in the world, definiely not the worst movies nor the worst games we ever seen. And they all connect to eachother in a consistent way. That and if theres more room for the world of FF7 to expand, then who will deny it?


"besides this, besides that" thats all you ever say to make it seem like you're right.

 

[Hyunxt]

I dont undestand the hate of the people that like final fantasy VII,
Everyone has a opinion , so let the fans dream with a remake / sequel/ prequel
whatever. If you liked, good, if you dont liked good too. now people make wars at all forum
because of this.
FFVII its my favorite final fantasy, but i enjoy the other too
whats the problem??
Hey budies no stresss ^^

 

[Razberry Knight]

I dont undestand the hate of the people that like final fantasy VII,
Everyone has a opinion , so let the fans dream with a remake / sequel/ prequel
whatever. If you liked, good, if you dont liked good too. now people make wars at all forum
because of this.
FFVII its my favorite final fantasy, but i enjoy the other too
whats the problem??
Hey budies no stresss ^^

The thread was started so it would indirectly defend final fantasy XIII. the one who startwd this said final fanrasy VII obsession is affecting our ability to enjoy new final fantasy games. But again, its ridiculous to even consider it.

 

[Hyunxt]

The thread was started so it would indirectly defend final fantasy XIII. the one who startwd this said final fanrasy VII obsession is affecting our ability to enjoy new final fantasy games. But again, its ridiculous to even consider it.

Yes i agree. I dont play the final fantasy XIII yet but i want to.
What make a game enjoyable its the game itself, not other game.
Iam sure , if some day Square enix make a epic game with story, graphic and gameplay
i doubt that thread like this one , won't exist

 

[Sanji Himura]

The thread was started so it would indirectly defend final fantasy XIII. the one who startwd this said final fanrasy VII obsession is affecting our ability to enjoy new final fantasy games. But again, its ridiculous to even consider it.

I have played Final Fantasy XIII, but I would have enjoyed it more had it not been so bloody linear. However, you are wrong on one point, and that is that while the obsession has died down, the target of that obsession has not. If we were having this conversation back in 2001 when Final Fantasy X came out, I might have the case that yes, the Final Fantasy VII obsession is too great to even consider Final Fantasy X a good game (in my case I thought that Final Fantasy VIII was a fantastic game to even bother touching X). Then Kingdom Hearts came out, so the target of that obsession shifted from Final Fantasy VII to KH(which explains why VII's sequal games did poorly).

It's not that the reputation of the characters that made that obsession possible, it is the story. I still think that VII is the weakest of all of the PS1 Final Fantasies story wise, but does that stop me from enjoying the game every now and then? Absolutely not.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I have played Final Fantasy XIII, but I would have enjoyed it more had it not been so bloody linear. However, you are wrong on one point, and that is that while the obsession has died down, the target of that obsession has not. If we were having this conversation back in 2001 when Final Fantasy X came out, I might have the case that yes, the Final Fantasy VII obsession is too great to even consider Final Fantasy X a good game (in my case I thought that Final Fantasy VIII was a fantastic game to even bother touching X). Then Kingdom Hearts came out, so the target of that obsession shifted from Final Fantasy VII to KH(which explains why VII's sequal games did poorly).

It's not that the reputation of the characters that made that obsession possible, it is the story. I still think that VII is the weakest of all of the PS1 Final Fantasies story wise, but does that stop me from enjoying the game every now and then? Absolutely not.

So we play KH because of ff7?

Final fantasy X is still considered a great game in fact do we ever hear "final fantasy died aftwr f7".
No, its "after final fantasy x final fantasy has died". And not that i agree but it shows people know where ff has gone.

And if theres a target audience, its not ff7 fans directly. Just ff fans in general

 

[Sanji Himura]

So we play KH because of ff7?

No, no. I'm saying that we become just as obsessed over Kingdom Hearts because Cloud and Sephiroth are in every installment. No matter what side of the fence you are on, whether or not you like Final Fantasy VII as a whole, you have to admit that Cloud and Sephiroth are big draws since they were introduced. This is in large part because Nomura is the director and producer of the Kingdom Hearts franchise, and he designed a lot of the PS1 era characters that are in Kingdom Hearts.

Final fantasy X is still considered a great game in fact do we ever hear "final fantasy died aftwr f7".
No, its "after final fantasy x final fantasy has died". And not that i agree but it shows people know where ff has gone.

My point (that you took out of context, BTW) is that we will always consider the next game in the franchise to be inferior to the previous one. I didn't get much face time with Final Fantasy IX when it first came out, so I generally skip it when I do my count of what order of Final Fantasies I played.

 

[Razberry Knight]

No, no. I'm saying that we become just as obsessed over Kingdom Hearts because Cloud and Sephiroth are in every installment. No matter what side of the fence you are on, whether or not you like Final Fantasy VII as a whole, you have to admit that Cloud and Sephiroth are big draws since they were introduced. This is in large part because Nomura is the director and producer of the Kingdom Hearts franchise, and he designed a lot of the PS1 era characters that are in Kingdom Hearts.



My point (that you took out of context, BTW) is that we will always consider the next game in the franchise to be inferior to the previous one. I didn't get much face time with Final Fantasy IX when it first came out, so I generally skip it when I do my count of what order of Final Fantasies I played.

Those are grwat extras. But its not what makes people love kh.

And ni we will not always consider the next game in the franchise inferior. Your statement is too vague.

 

[Boshi]

Fear of change forces you to move side to side then slowly back instead of forward

I'm not one to dwell in nastalgic past therefore I don't see VII as an obsession. I realistically see it for What it is/was. A great game. It's to Final Fantasy what Ocarina of Time is to Zelda. This is coming from someone who enjoyed every FF though, so it is what it is. The series never died to me. Never will either, long as I view each new iteration with a open mind. That's where people get swayed.

 

[dra600n]

My point (that you took out of context, BTW) is that we will always consider the next game in the franchise to be inferior to the previous one. I didn't get much face time with Final Fantasy IX when it first came out, so I generally skip it when I do my count of what order of Final Fantasies I played.

I disagree slightly with that we will consider the next in line to be inferior. While it's generally true in most cases (movie sequels, a band's follow up album, a book, video games, etc), there will always be exceptions, and of course, peoples tastes.

Keeping on the subject of Final Fantasy, I've played them as they were released in the US (since, that's where I'm from). I love FF1, but I loved FF2 more, and I loved FF3 the most. FF7, I liked it, and I'd place it somewhere between FF1 and FF2 in terms of quality and game play, and I couldn't stand 8 (not because I played FF7 first, as you can see, up until 7 got released, I liked the latest installment the best), 9 got released, and I liked it much better than 7 and 8, and then I played X, and it fell to above 7, which in my eyes, is 3rd to the bottom of the list at this point.

I like XIII-2 better than XIII. So, the statement might reflect a majority of people (maybe it doesn't? I don't know, I don't know many people who've followed the series past X). I'd say you could go by sales, but that's not always accurate of it being a good title, because people who love the FF franchise will generally buy the games released, be it good or bad. Kind of the same way how all Call of Duty players keep buying the same game every 6 months, or the same Madden/MLB/NHL/etc game each year.

This just reflects my opinion and tastes. Most people have FF4 or 6 (or both) in their top 5 SNES games of all time, and there's a lot of "FF4 is so much better than 6" arguments, especially before 7 came out.

I'll use another example using music. Metallica. Their first 2 albums (Kill'm All and Ride the Lightning) both went platinum over time. Both had singles on the radio, and were widely distributed on the underground market (the irony, especially since Lars sued Napster in 2000 or 2001). Their third album, Master of Puppets, went Platinum a week after release, without any radio play or music videos. That album changed heavy metal forever. Their follow up album (...And Justice For All) didn't sell nearly as well. In 1991, they went main stream and sold the most copies of any of their albums. Was it their best? In terms of record sales and commercialized music, yes. It is a really good album. Is it better than Master of Puppets? Most people into metal will say no, but, now you have the numbers in a wider spread audience that will argue that. The same falls with Final Fantasy. The obsession back in 1997 through 2001/2002 was insanely high. It's nowhere near that now. And I'm sorry, anyone who was under the age of 10 during that time can't argue it since they really didn't experience it.

 

[Hyunxt]

But the real question of the topic is
The fffans dont enjoy new games because of ffVII
i dont agree but i dont doubt that peoples like this exists
but its the minority

 

[Catnip]

Hyunxt (I can't quote on my phone)

I don't necessarily agree with the minority bit. I think that, yes, it is a bit much to assume every FF7 fan sets their standards just about all the same according to that particular game, but I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that people do set their standards based on nostalgia. Go to any Final Fantasy forum and I guarantee you will see people complain about how the newer games (which goes back to even FFX) don't "feel" like Final Fantasy games. I think this is what OP is trying to get at, but using FF7 as the main example, for hopefully obvious reasons.

 

[Razberry Knight]

@Hyunxt (I can't quote on my phone)

I don't necessarily agree with the minority bit. I think that, yes, it is a bit much to assume every FF7 fan sets their standards just about all the same according to that particular game, but I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that people do set their standards based on nostalgia. Go to any Final Fantasy forum and I guarantee you will see people complain about how the newer games (which goes back to even FFX) don't "feel" like Final Fantasy games. I think this is what OP is trying to get at, but using FF7 as the main example, for hopefully obvious reasons.

not really....he usedff7 specifically for a reason. still it relates indirectly to XIII series in which again,has nothing to do with nostalgia. iwelcome change and innovation as long as it stays true to its roots and its fans. And they aretrying to get back to their roots and fans, and it's not bad, but their using XIII. the game most of us didnot like. So if we didn'tlike the original, what makes them think we want to play the sequel?

 

[Hyunxt]

not really....he usedff7 specifically for a reason. still it relates indirectly to XIII series in which again,has nothing to do with nostalgia. iwelcome change and innovation as long as it stays true to its roots and its fans. And they aretrying to get back to their roots and fans, and it's not bad, but their using XIII. the game most of us didnot like. So if we didn'tlike the original, what makes them think we want to play the sequel?

Not only a sequel
Final fantasy XIII , i dont play but i see and hear a lot of bad things of the game
Final fantasy XIII - 2, For me the same people that dislike the preview ff buy this one trying to see for another angle but
like i said, i dont play this either so i give my opinion in what i saw here and in other FF forums and again the critique is negative.
So the made two games but not happy yet , they will made another game
Final fantasy XIII - Lightning Return, so they are trying hard to make us like this title.

I agree with Razberry, the Op said clear
[h=1]Why the Final Fantasy VII Obsession Needs to End...Now.[/h]And i agree with everyone who said that after Final fantasy X , Square lose the "way"

I only see people put in final fantasy VII bag the bad of games that square are making

 

[Razberry Knight]

Not only a sequel
Final fantasy XIII , i dont play but i see and hear a lot of bad things of the game
Final fantasy XIII - 2, For me the same people that dislike the preview ff buy this one trying to see for another angle but
like i said, i dont play this either so i give my opinion in what i saw here and in other FF forums and again the critique is negative.
So the made two games but not happy yet , they will made another game
Final fantasy XIII - Lightning Return, so they are trying hard to make us like this title.

I agree with Razberry, the Op said clear
[h=1]Why the Final Fantasy VII Obsession Needs to End...Now.[/h]And i agree with everyone who said that after Final fantasy X , Square lose the "way"

I only see people put in final fantasy VII bag the bad of games that square are making

I HIGHLY suggest you play it for 10 hours and then get back to me

 

[Sanji Himura]

@Hyunxt (I can't quote on my phone)

I don't necessarily agree with the minority bit. I think that, yes, it is a bit much to assume every FF7 fan sets their standards just about all the same according to that particular game, but I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that people do set their standards based on nostalgia. Go to any Final Fantasy forum and I guarantee you will see people complain about how the newer games (which goes back to even FFX) don't "feel" like Final Fantasy games. I think this is what OP is trying to get at, but using FF7 as the main example, for hopefully obvious reasons.

It is not that it is an impossible bar, but it is a bar that Square is setting for themselves and will fail to meet time after time because they won't get those who would sit in front of the game for hours on end.

Take for example, Final Fantasy XIII. One of the weakest reviewed games in Western media history involving any Final Fantasy title. Now if 10 million people bought the game, and this is for the sake of argument, at $60, then Square would earn $60 million on Final Fantasy XIII sales. Even if half of those who bought the game returned or sold the game for $40 wouldn't matter to Square's bottom line. They already have your gaming $$ for the month, and wouldn't care what you think if you bought a bad game from them from the IGNs of the world.

The whole point is that if Square themselves are using Final Fantasy VII as a bench mark for how their Final Fantasies should be before they consider a true remake, then they will never meet the standard both internally and in the fans eyes.