The Final Warrior
The Dawn of a True Warrior
well i guess your right but we will never really know unless the creaters made a game of them fighting together somehow i mean its impossible now since zack dead unless he comes back to life i got nothing
Zack vs. Cloud: Who's Stronger?
- Thread starter Nikkolas
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The Final Warrior
The Dawn of a True Warrior
It does not matter who has better skill but who is more idk like tactics because you could have the best skills but your nothing with out tactics hell too be fair they are both awesome if you want to see some awesomess from zack look for final fantasy 7 the last order on you tube trust me its cool
aquilum_rosa
I swear, I didn't steal your materia!!
I'd say each are about equal, but this is only based off combat mechanics, lol. Cloud was much easier to level up because of EXP and random encounters, and as far as Zack went, we had to wait for the 777 modulating phase which was a royal pain when it came to leveling up. It's also quite obvious that higher level = more strength. I finished FF7 with Cloud at about level 80, and CC with Zack at about 45-50? Cloud for the win.
As far as who could do more damage, Cloud has the time curse in the ATB system (as much as I love it, I'm also impatient), and Zack with his combat mode could put in way more hits. Zack's fused Dark Thundaga materia put Sephiroth away REAL fast. (But of course, not for long because he is Sephiroth.) Zack pwned.
As far as weaponry goes, Zack received the Buster Sword halfway? through Crisis Core, and Cloud started FFVII with it and moved on to much stronger weaponry. (Ultimate weapon anyone? 2X the strength of the Masamune) Cloud wins here.
Because of all this, I think they're each in their own league, and neither Zack nor Cloud are stronger than each other. They're just about equal.
As far as who could do more damage, Cloud has the time curse in the ATB system (as much as I love it, I'm also impatient), and Zack with his combat mode could put in way more hits. Zack's fused Dark Thundaga materia put Sephiroth away REAL fast. (But of course, not for long because he is Sephiroth.) Zack pwned.
As far as weaponry goes, Zack received the Buster Sword halfway? through Crisis Core, and Cloud started FFVII with it and moved on to much stronger weaponry. (Ultimate weapon anyone? 2X the strength of the Masamune) Cloud wins here.
Because of all this, I think they're each in their own league, and neither Zack nor Cloud are stronger than each other. They're just about equal.
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NobleKnightNow
ShinRa Guard
Zack:More Physicaly stronger
Cloud:Saved the World
You tell me whos stronger? Zack may be physicaly, but Cloud has been through a lot more and has a much higher mental capability, if they went arm-wrestling ,Zach would win, a full out duel Cloud would win.
Cloud:Saved the World
You tell me whos stronger? Zack may be physicaly, but Cloud has been through a lot more and has a much higher mental capability, if they went arm-wrestling ,Zach would win, a full out duel Cloud would win.
NobleKnightNow
ShinRa Guard
The Final Warrior
The Dawn of a True Warrior
why you all hating on zack i know what you mean but you can never truelly tell until square enix makes final fantasy 7 only that zack is revive and they both work together and at some point they both fight like for training or something
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Jacks-over
Chocobo Breeder
Cloud farpasses Zack long before the end off FF 7 I'd say evn before FF 7 or around level 10.
Besides Zack has a "Mullet" and only complete Tools have mullets.
The Final Warrior
The Dawn of a True Warrior
screw you dude zack is awesome
Baron Van Wolfen
Saint Of Posters
Ok after reading this entire thread and reviewing zack and cloud's own singular fights i think i can come to an accurate assumption on who would win.
First thing is to determine what cloud would be fightning. Even if CC cloud had massive amounts of hidden strenght he would lose in a straight out brawl. So if using strongest incarnation im going to use advent children cloud. Now the first misconception you should get out of the way is that sephiroth was toying/taking lightly/playing dissidia while fighting cloud. Most fans are under the illusion that sephiroth was there for shiits and giggles not even trying. This couldnt be farther from the truth, id even go as far to say that cloud is the only person sephiroth has ever tried against. But before getting into the advent children fight there is a quote you need to review.
"It's said that Cloud was outmatched when it came to the fight with Sephiroth.
Sorry everybody who thinks that Cloud was almost on par with him: he wasn't.
Even worse for Cloud, Nomura said that Sephiroth didn't sweat during the
entire fight and never exerted himself. In other words, he wasn't even trying
hard. Cloud on the other hand was clearly giving it his all and was described
by the book as exhausted by the time the battle was nearing its conclusion." http://faqs.ign.com/articles/698/698416p1.html
This is the quote that many people belive so blindly and underestimate cloud about. First off all that was said in the reunion files was that cloud was outmatched(which is clearly obvious but i will get to that later). The part where the translator mentions sephiroth sweating was not even ment to be in relation about the fight. It was directed to how they designed seph as an "otherworldly godly existance" like they designed him above humans. This is also confirmed by the fact that they said they didnt even make him blink in the movie.
All these supernatural aspects are related to seph becoming fully jenova, not being bound anymore by human phisiology, he dosent sweat, blink or get tired. Seriously, he has a will stronger than the planet and his own lifestream. Now the part about sephiroth not exerting i will relate to the fight in advent children. If you noticed, sephiroth's power is no longer solely based in meele combat(like everybody else's), he has all of jenova's powers as well. Telekinesis, intangibility, barriers etc.....he did not use these in the fight with cloud. However he did use the full extent of his meele abilities in his AC fight. And this is a sephiroth who could warp speed in his weakest incarnation, manhandle genesis and angeal, said to be the strongest in the world in CC, and defeat zack.
Really, you just need to watch the fight to observe seph is not kidding around. The lines he says to cloud are just taunts, he did it with zack and genesis, nothing new there. Also Watching the fight again you can CLEARLY see he's overexerting himself more against cloud than even against zack or genesis.
He even grunts like six times in the fight(though they are scarse and you need to pay attention to hear them), he uses two hands on the masamune unlike his other fights. Cloud is also the only one in the series whos actually pushed sephiroth backwards, two times in AC. And you can clearly see cloud's matching him blow for blow, not easily he has to overexert himself, but he's matching him nonetheless. Sephiroth is not holding back physically. Not to mention AC seph is stated to be the most powerfull being in ff7, nothing is above him in any way. Meaning he is stronger, faster, more durable, able to regenerate his body from a few jenova cells in a couple of seconds, more focused, more powerfull. And cloud fought that sephiroth for hours( they say the fight started like 6pm and he awoke in the church 7am), in equal grounds. Now to the reason cloud lost. As everyone knows, cloud is human, he sweats, blinks and gets tired. He was bound to get exausted matching the strongest fighter in ff7 in a fight. Of couse if seph used his hax jenova powers cloud would need materia to combat that. And thats probably why sephiroth only went meele. Maybe he wanted a fair fight. To see if he could truly best his nemesis who turned the tables around him two times prior(which he almost did, but omnislash saved the day)
In the fight seph never really had to a chance to just end cloud, he had to fatigue cloud so he could win. And that took 14 hours, give or take a few. He wasent DOMINATING him, making him his pet or somethin. They were even in skill. BUT after cloud got fatigued(after the fight in the building collapsing) THEN seph clearly dominates, cloud couldnt even defend himself, in other words sephiroth had cloud in the bag(or so he thought). Then cloud unleashes the omnislash(which seph parries by the way), but it fails, cloud then eats an octaslash, and is thrown to the ground. At this point seph is certain he has won.
But zack comes and gives cloud some emotional aid, cloud gets up and uses the omni v6. Cloud wins. So summarizing the fight cloud fought against ths strongest character for hours "ferociously"(SE words btw) and only lost because he got fatigued. Seeing his performance(and clouds feats) and considering there is nothing above AC seph id easily give cloud the title of second strongest in 7, no if or buts.
Cloud has also amazing feats to back his power up for example: dodging bullets with geostigma and lightning, fighting loz and yazoo at the same time and throwing the two out of combat with geostigma, soaring through a megaflare unscathed, defeating kadaj easily, and defeating sephiroth himself in a battle in the lifestream in ff7.
Now on the other hand we have Zack, who id say is probably the elites 1st class there is(though i believe quite a few characters are above soldier, cloud and seph included), and fifth strongest character in the series. Since the most of what i did in the cloud part was compare his fight to sephiroth, ill do the same here.
However now we come to a roadblock: which zack/sephiroth fight to use? Frankly ill compare all three.
1st zack fight in ff7 - This would not even have a basis for zack, in the original ff7 zack was owned by seph so fast you could barelly say arrested development before he was thrown to the ground unconcious. If i use this fight and considering CC seph<<<<<<<<< AC seph cloud is INFINITELY superior.
2nd zack fight, LO - Dosent really change much, ther fight is still quick, short and zack barely has time to react and sephorth is barraging him endlessly, you can clearly see the level differences, and considering this quote from the sephiroth ultimania profile:
"Battling Zack, a colleague with whom he was close. He brushes off Zack’s attacks with such power that one wouldn't think they were the same rank in SOLDIER." - http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/sephiroth.php
Zack again is clearly outclassed by a sephiroth much weaker than the one cloud fought.
3rd zack fight, Crisis Core - In this fight zack does a better job against seph. we have however some cutscenes that show zack being pushed around like in last order, but seph did use two hands on the masamune to knock him out. Although its easy to argue that the fight was longer for gameplay purposes and SE wouldnt onw zack in 10 seconds on his game. Regardless seph was completely undamaged, did not grunt, and appeared even unfased by the fight. Not to mention zack even fell unconscious after the fight. And still a much weaker seph than the one cloud fought.
Also take into consideration that the experiments that were made on zack by Hojo had NO effect on him. He did not get stronger or weaker. And he deafeated genesis, but was manhandled by sephiroth easily. Its only said that seph and G's combat abilities where equal. NOT that they would be equal IN combat. Really you cant argue for genesis being equal when zack was defeated by seph easily(just goes to show how much i think sephiroth was exerting himself against genesis in the training room:/) , or when the creators had stated seph was the strongest in the world at CC times, and the greatest soldier and what not.
Sorry for the long post, i doubt someone will read it all but better to post it than have it permeate your thoughts. If you read it though, thank you, i appreciate it. I would in the end conclude that cloud has surpassed zack and soldier by the end of ff7, and a lot more in AC.
First thing is to determine what cloud would be fightning. Even if CC cloud had massive amounts of hidden strenght he would lose in a straight out brawl. So if using strongest incarnation im going to use advent children cloud. Now the first misconception you should get out of the way is that sephiroth was toying/taking lightly/playing dissidia while fighting cloud. Most fans are under the illusion that sephiroth was there for shiits and giggles not even trying. This couldnt be farther from the truth, id even go as far to say that cloud is the only person sephiroth has ever tried against. But before getting into the advent children fight there is a quote you need to review.
"It's said that Cloud was outmatched when it came to the fight with Sephiroth.
Sorry everybody who thinks that Cloud was almost on par with him: he wasn't.
Even worse for Cloud, Nomura said that Sephiroth didn't sweat during the
entire fight and never exerted himself. In other words, he wasn't even trying
hard. Cloud on the other hand was clearly giving it his all and was described
by the book as exhausted by the time the battle was nearing its conclusion." http://faqs.ign.com/articles/698/698416p1.html
This is the quote that many people belive so blindly and underestimate cloud about. First off all that was said in the reunion files was that cloud was outmatched(which is clearly obvious but i will get to that later). The part where the translator mentions sephiroth sweating was not even ment to be in relation about the fight. It was directed to how they designed seph as an "otherworldly godly existance" like they designed him above humans. This is also confirmed by the fact that they said they didnt even make him blink in the movie.
All these supernatural aspects are related to seph becoming fully jenova, not being bound anymore by human phisiology, he dosent sweat, blink or get tired. Seriously, he has a will stronger than the planet and his own lifestream. Now the part about sephiroth not exerting i will relate to the fight in advent children. If you noticed, sephiroth's power is no longer solely based in meele combat(like everybody else's), he has all of jenova's powers as well. Telekinesis, intangibility, barriers etc.....he did not use these in the fight with cloud. However he did use the full extent of his meele abilities in his AC fight. And this is a sephiroth who could warp speed in his weakest incarnation, manhandle genesis and angeal, said to be the strongest in the world in CC, and defeat zack.
Really, you just need to watch the fight to observe seph is not kidding around. The lines he says to cloud are just taunts, he did it with zack and genesis, nothing new there. Also Watching the fight again you can CLEARLY see he's overexerting himself more against cloud than even against zack or genesis.
He even grunts like six times in the fight(though they are scarse and you need to pay attention to hear them), he uses two hands on the masamune unlike his other fights. Cloud is also the only one in the series whos actually pushed sephiroth backwards, two times in AC. And you can clearly see cloud's matching him blow for blow, not easily he has to overexert himself, but he's matching him nonetheless. Sephiroth is not holding back physically. Not to mention AC seph is stated to be the most powerfull being in ff7, nothing is above him in any way. Meaning he is stronger, faster, more durable, able to regenerate his body from a few jenova cells in a couple of seconds, more focused, more powerfull. And cloud fought that sephiroth for hours( they say the fight started like 6pm and he awoke in the church 7am), in equal grounds. Now to the reason cloud lost. As everyone knows, cloud is human, he sweats, blinks and gets tired. He was bound to get exausted matching the strongest fighter in ff7 in a fight. Of couse if seph used his hax jenova powers cloud would need materia to combat that. And thats probably why sephiroth only went meele. Maybe he wanted a fair fight. To see if he could truly best his nemesis who turned the tables around him two times prior(which he almost did, but omnislash saved the day)
In the fight seph never really had to a chance to just end cloud, he had to fatigue cloud so he could win. And that took 14 hours, give or take a few. He wasent DOMINATING him, making him his pet or somethin. They were even in skill. BUT after cloud got fatigued(after the fight in the building collapsing) THEN seph clearly dominates, cloud couldnt even defend himself, in other words sephiroth had cloud in the bag(or so he thought). Then cloud unleashes the omnislash(which seph parries by the way), but it fails, cloud then eats an octaslash, and is thrown to the ground. At this point seph is certain he has won.
But zack comes and gives cloud some emotional aid, cloud gets up and uses the omni v6. Cloud wins. So summarizing the fight cloud fought against ths strongest character for hours "ferociously"(SE words btw) and only lost because he got fatigued. Seeing his performance(and clouds feats) and considering there is nothing above AC seph id easily give cloud the title of second strongest in 7, no if or buts.
Cloud has also amazing feats to back his power up for example: dodging bullets with geostigma and lightning, fighting loz and yazoo at the same time and throwing the two out of combat with geostigma, soaring through a megaflare unscathed, defeating kadaj easily, and defeating sephiroth himself in a battle in the lifestream in ff7.
Now on the other hand we have Zack, who id say is probably the elites 1st class there is(though i believe quite a few characters are above soldier, cloud and seph included), and fifth strongest character in the series. Since the most of what i did in the cloud part was compare his fight to sephiroth, ill do the same here.
However now we come to a roadblock: which zack/sephiroth fight to use? Frankly ill compare all three.
1st zack fight in ff7 - This would not even have a basis for zack, in the original ff7 zack was owned by seph so fast you could barelly say arrested development before he was thrown to the ground unconcious. If i use this fight and considering CC seph<<<<<<<<< AC seph cloud is INFINITELY superior.
2nd zack fight, LO - Dosent really change much, ther fight is still quick, short and zack barely has time to react and sephorth is barraging him endlessly, you can clearly see the level differences, and considering this quote from the sephiroth ultimania profile:
"Battling Zack, a colleague with whom he was close. He brushes off Zack’s attacks with such power that one wouldn't think they were the same rank in SOLDIER." - http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/sephiroth.php
Zack again is clearly outclassed by a sephiroth much weaker than the one cloud fought.
3rd zack fight, Crisis Core - In this fight zack does a better job against seph. we have however some cutscenes that show zack being pushed around like in last order, but seph did use two hands on the masamune to knock him out. Although its easy to argue that the fight was longer for gameplay purposes and SE wouldnt onw zack in 10 seconds on his game. Regardless seph was completely undamaged, did not grunt, and appeared even unfased by the fight. Not to mention zack even fell unconscious after the fight. And still a much weaker seph than the one cloud fought.
Also take into consideration that the experiments that were made on zack by Hojo had NO effect on him. He did not get stronger or weaker. And he deafeated genesis, but was manhandled by sephiroth easily. Its only said that seph and G's combat abilities where equal. NOT that they would be equal IN combat. Really you cant argue for genesis being equal when zack was defeated by seph easily(just goes to show how much i think sephiroth was exerting himself against genesis in the training room:/) , or when the creators had stated seph was the strongest in the world at CC times, and the greatest soldier and what not.
Sorry for the long post, i doubt someone will read it all but better to post it than have it permeate your thoughts. If you read it though, thank you, i appreciate it. I would in the end conclude that cloud has surpassed zack and soldier by the end of ff7, and a lot more in AC.
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InMyMemories
Newbie
I'm not even going to go to the extents of strength with Cloud & Zack. c:
Their both wield the same strength in my opinion. And i'm going to try and make this longer since this post is really short..
So, chyeah. :3
Their both amazing & strong.
<3
Their both wield the same strength in my opinion. And i'm going to try and make this longer since this post is really short..
So, chyeah. :3
Their both amazing & strong.
<3
I believe Zack had more ana at first, but Cloud eventulaly comes out on top. I don't think anyone else could have defeated Sephiroth in such an augmented state.
In Crisis Core, Zack was definitely stronger than Cloud. Cloud was getting travel sickness and eventually Zack even had to carry him due to the Mako having such an affect/effect on the poor guy. Due to the Mako thing, I think Cloud 'became' Zack so pushed himself to become just as strong as he once was, perhaps stronger over more time.
However, if Zack wasn't killed when he was?
I think, personally, he would have been stronger.
Obviously since he was ahead of Cloud at the start.
Only makes sense to me...
However, if Zack wasn't killed when he was?
I think, personally, he would have been stronger.
Obviously since he was ahead of Cloud at the start.
Only makes sense to me...
Chinglee42
NewBornMoogle
Cloud seems to be more "super human" than Zack so I'd say Cloud is Stronger.
Although I think early on in Crisis Core, Zack was stronger.
I also beleive that the Jenova Cells had effected Cloud more "heavily" than it did to Zack.
Although I think early on in Crisis Core, Zack was stronger.
I also beleive that the Jenova Cells had effected Cloud more "heavily" than it did to Zack.
Baron Van Wolfen
Saint Of Posters
Well Cloud is genetically superior to Zack in the sense that the Sephiroth cells that he received were not contaminated.
Also because the cells Cloud received were the exact same as the one Sephiroth did, meaning the most pure and concentrated.
Hence why Cloud's the only one who could duplicate a portion of Sephiroth's power throughout the series.
But Cloud wins because:
1) He is state to be the only one who could rival seph
2) He took on the transcended negative-lifestream enchanced form of Sephiroth(who is stated to be the most powerfull being in all FFVII existance) alone in 1-on-1 for more that 12 hours equally before getting tired.
He then killed him with an Omnislash.
Ao yea, I'd say Cloud surpassed Zack mid FF7, and becomes over twice as strong at the end of AC.
Also because the cells Cloud received were the exact same as the one Sephiroth did, meaning the most pure and concentrated.
Hence why Cloud's the only one who could duplicate a portion of Sephiroth's power throughout the series.
But Cloud wins because:
1) He is state to be the only one who could rival seph
2) He took on the transcended negative-lifestream enchanced form of Sephiroth(who is stated to be the most powerfull being in all FFVII existance) alone in 1-on-1 for more that 12 hours equally before getting tired.
He then killed him with an Omnislash.
Ao yea, I'd say Cloud surpassed Zack mid FF7, and becomes over twice as strong at the end of AC.
Hmm Cloud vs Zack eh? Depending on which version of Cloud we're talking about I guess. FF7 Cloud is probably on par with Zack at his strongest. AC Cloud is probably more stronger since he has more experience. I bet if Zack were around though I.E. STILL alive he would be stronger.