Aerith and her Faith

[Ayen]

Church definition,

1 : a building for public and especially Christian worship
2 : the clergy or officialdom of a religious body
3 often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/church

Churches tend to be mostly assoicated with Christianity sure, but as the third definition shows that's not always the case. For example there is a Church of Sciencetology.

I also have to agree with the argument that just because something is inspired from an aspect of real life, be it a religion or whatever, that it doesn't always mean that thing exists in the universe being created as it exists in real life. It simply means that piece of fiction was inspired by something that exists in real life. Authors do it often, be inspired by something in real life and add it to their creation.

That said, I can't really say whether or not Christianity exists in the universe of Final Fantasy VII. I wasn't one of the people working on the game. There are a lot of things about the Aerith character that can be related to Christianity, and fair enough if you want to think her a Christian, I'm just not sure if that's what the creators originally intended. You'd have to ask them.

But just because you see something in a particular piece of art doesn't mean that was the creator's original intent. I'm reminded of an episode of A Different World where in class a person wrote a poem about their love of Math. Other people saw it as a poem about a lover and the teacher was saying that in ten years somebody could read the poem and see something that would make them think it's about something else and the creator/main character said, "And it would still be a poem about Math."

 

[Saints&Storms]

I also have to agree with the argument that just because something is inspired from an aspect of real life, be it a religion or whatever, that it doesn't always mean that thing exists in the universe being created as it exists in real life. It simply means that piece of fiction was inspired by something that exists in real life. Authors do it often, be inspired by something in real life and add it to their creation.

That said, I can't really say whether or not Christianity exists in the universe of Final Fantasy VII. I wasn't one of the people working on the game. There are a lot of things about the Aerith character that can be related to Christianity, and fair enough if you want to think her a Christian, I'm just not sure if that's what the creators originally intended. You'd have to ask them.

I don't think the comparison of what a love poem's center could be is the same as designing a Church to look and appear as a roman catholic Gothic church.

Lest we forget that A.) Aerith is seen praying on her knees, so there is indeed a "Faith" there and Aerith does believe in it most definitely hence the praying.

B.) Roman Catholic design angels descend from the sky above her and heal the party and herself. So whatever Aerith seemed to be praying for did come -- and that was aid from Angels.


C.) Aerith lives in a Church and has an attachment to said church most likely, compiling this with the fact that Aerith, Prayed, Roman designed Angels aided her after her prayer, there are many angelic statues placed around Edge in the Advent Children Movie, Vincents coffin has the Cross on it and so many other evidential supportive proofs -- I'm going to go with my gut instinct and say these are not a bundle of coincidences, not just because I hate coincidences but because it makes the debate look pretty bottomless.

Saying that just because so many things are inspired by Christianity in the game - doesn't mean it exists in game is like saying they aren't to be assumed human just because they speak human tongues and share the same anatomy.

 

[CassinoChips]

Saying that just because so many things are inspired by Christianity in the game - doesn't mean it exists in game is like saying they aren't to be assumed human just because they speak human tongues and share the same anatomy.

Is a robot that speaks English and is anatomically equivalent to a human therefore defined as a human? No. It's fundamentally different. So just because it looks human by all outward appearances does not mean it's human.

Thus, just because many of the things Aeris does look Christian, it is not logical to say she is Christian. Also, just because many things in the game share qualities with Christian things, it does not necessarily mean they are themselves Christian.

/shoots self for getting involved in this thread again.

 

[Harlequin]

/shoots self for getting involved in this thread again.

Honestly though when I studied Shakespeare I thought to myself no way could he have embedded so much meaning in his works that all this literary analysis is throwing up but with time I've come to realise that if the reader gleans meaning from a text it is there.

In Shakespeare's case it was language and plays, but the concept is just as relevant when referencing paintings and other forms of art.

I'll welcome anyone to tell me what makes art if not what is conveyed. If someone 1,000 years down the line picks this game up and examines the blatant Christian influences in game can we really make the assertion it doesn't exist?

I'm not saying Aeris is a Christian, but I'd say we can't.

 

[CassinoChips]

I'll welcome anyone to tell me what makes art if not what is conveyed. If someone 1,000 years down the line picks this game up and examines the blatant Christian influences in game can we really make the assertion it doesn't exist?

Absolutely not. The influence exists. I don't think anyone's refuting that. The problem I have with the argument being put forth is that it doesn't necessarily mean that those items that have been influenced by Christianity are themselves therefore defined as Christian. A viewer's interpretation does not define the object for anyone other than the viewer.

 

[Harlequin]

The problem I have with the argument being put forth is that it doesn't necessarily mean that those items that have been influenced by Christianity are themselves therefore defined as Christian.

But that's not what I said. I said there was Christian influence and indeed Christianity, but not that characters nor items were Christian ingame. I did however say that I couldn't make the assertion that either exist, but I suppose that's another painstaking debate we don't want to go too far into.

 

[CassinoChips]

But that's not what I said. I said there was Christian influence and indeed Christianity, but not that characters nor items were Christian ingame. I did however say that I couldn't make the assertion that either exist, but I suppose that's another painstaking debate we don't want to go too far into.

That's why I said "the argument" and not "your argument". Though I do disagree about Christianity existing in the game, for reasons I'm fairly certain I stated about 160 posts ago.

 

[Harlequin]

My apologies I clearly misread that post. In fairness though I've thrown up a few more ideas that weren't expressed in the first few posts in this thread which you're referring to but it's quite obvious this thread has lasted an obscene amount of time considering the triviality of the subject matter so I won't be fighting my corner anymore.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I don't think the comparison of what a love poem's center could be is the same as designing a Church to look and appear as a roman catholic Gothic church.

Lest we forget that A.) Aerith is seen praying on her knees, so there is indeed a "Faith" there and Aerith does believe in it most definitely hence the praying.

Which narrows her faith down to any number of religions which involve kneeling to pray, which includes a number of Asiatic religions.

B.) Roman Catholic design angels descend from the sky above her and heal the party and herself. So whatever Aerith seemed to be praying for did come -- and that was aid from Angels.

Again, I ask... how the hell do you 'know' they are Roman Catholic? Can't they be seventh day adventist angels, jewish angels, latter day saints, angels, greek angels hell, they could be Celestials from DnD.
Lest we forget, there are people with wings on their back in FF7 who are decidedly not Roman Catholic.

C.) Aerith lives in a Church and has an attachment to said church most likely, compiling this with the fact that Aerith, Prayed, Roman designed Angels aided her after her prayer, there are many angelic statues placed around Edge in the Advent Children Movie, Vincents coffin has the Cross on it and so many other evidential supportive proofs -- I'm going to go with my gut instinct and say these are not a bundle of coincidences, not just because I hate coincidences but because it makes the debate look pretty bottomless.

Aerith does not live in the church.
Her attachment to the church is because of the flowers there.
Aerith prays to the planet. She is a Gaia worshipper. A pagan.
Angels are not Christian exclusive creatures, and are quite common among ancient middle eastern religions, and in several other religions worldwide.
Vincent's coffin has a cross on it, but 'crosses' in constructed objects are certainly no surprising thing.
In the worlds of FF10 and FF7, there is no Yeshua. As such, there can be no Christianity.

Saying that just because so many things are inspired by Christianity in the game - doesn't mean it exists in game is like saying they aren't to be assumed human just because they speak human tongues and share the same anatomy.

But the things you cite are at best incidental traits of Christianity AND OTHER THINGS. Nothing that would define anyone as being christian, or jewish, or hindu, or sheikist exists in the world of FF7, and there exists a replacement religion already.

 

[Ayen]

I don't think the comparison of what a love poem's center could be is the same as designing a Church to look and appear as a roman catholic Gothic church.

My comparison means that what others think about a piece of art =/= what the author meant to put across with that piece of art.

Lest we forget that A.) Aerith is seen praying on her knees, so there is indeed a "Faith" there and Aerith does believe in it most definitely hence the praying.

You make it sound like Faith is exclusive to one Religion or something. Every and any Religion has a Faith so again Aerith displaying Faith doesn't automatically goes to one exclusive Religion.

B.) Roman Catholic design angels descend from the sky above her and heal the party and herself. So whatever Aerith seemed to be praying for did come -- and that was aid from Angels.

These angels?

Really they're on the screen so briefly and given the quality of the graphics back then how can you be so sure? They look like generic angels to me.

C.) Aerith lives in a Church and has an attachment to said church most likely, compiling this with the fact that Aerith, Prayed, Roman designed Angels aided her after her prayer, there are many angelic statues placed around Edge in the Advent Children Movie, Vincents coffin has the Cross on it and so many other evidential supportive proofs -- I'm going to go with my gut instinct and say these are not a bundle of coincidences, not just because I hate coincidences but because it makes the debate look pretty bottomless.

I'll try not to echo what already been said, but Aerith doesn't live in a Church. She lives with her mother in the town that wasn't far off away from the Church. The angels appear generic at best and I could easily say that many other Religions could be in the game based on the same argument. So the debate doesn't appear all that bottomless to me.

Saying that just because so many things are inspired by Christianity in the game - doesn't mean it exists in game is like saying they aren't to be assumed human just because they speak human tongues and share the same anatomy.

Unless it's Star Trek. I would've thought Vulcans were humans if it weren't for the ears.

 

[Saints&Storms]

The picture on the left is a sketch of the Cat filled room in Wutai, there is a statue of Buddah on a shelf.

I am pretty sure its safe to say that's Buddah. >.>

 

[Alexis Malaware]

So, in the game, Aerith prays then angels assist her in battle, one of her limit breaks is known as "Great Gospel" and she also loves to live in a church. The word Gospel is associated with Christianity or the Bible--

does that mean Aerith is of Christian faith?

Please don't bash religion, I just wanna know if anyone's ever noticed this before. I bring it up because fans usually try to act as if there's no religion in the story-line of this game, when there obviously is.

For instance, instead of the people in the FFVII world believing in a God, fans make characters call out things like this; "Oh, Gaia!" or "Oh, my gaia"--which is weird... seeing how the game seems to focus on a religion the real world has.

k, I couldn't brace through 18 pages so somebody else may have said this, but you may be reading too much into it. Angels coming down in one of her limit breaks could be as simple as the game designers thinking it would look cool. Aerith is a white mage, their theme is healing so I can see how angels could easily fit in with that theme. Gaia means Earth and Gaia is a goddess in Greek mythology so if there is a religion in there and they're calling out to a Gaia it's not Christianity. I never thought about the possible religious themes of the game all that much though. Aerith could have been Buddhist for all I knew.

 

[coffeecup]

I'd put heavier weight on her following some form of Judaism rather than Christianity if we were to relate some of the overarching themes that were used in the game. Sephiroth means "tree of life" in Judaism and is the pathway to God. Jenova is pretty much Jehovah (or Yahweh depends on how you read it) which means God. Journey to the promised land of Cetra has to be allusion to the Exodus to the Promised land by the Jews.

So I'd put Jew over Christianty. But I doubt the developers really made her an adherent to any existing religion. That'd be a bit risky.

 

[Saints&Storms]

I'd put heavier weight on her following some form of Judaism rather than Christianity if we were to relate some of the overarching themes that were used in the game. Sephiroth means "tree of life" in Judaism and is the pathway to God. Jenova is pretty much Jehovah (or Yahweh depends on how you read it) which means God. Journey to the promised land of Cetra has to be allusion to the Exodus to the Promised land by the Jews.

So I'd put Jew over Christianty. But I doubt the developers really made her an adherent to any existing religion. That'd be a bit risky.

But Jenova is the Bad guy, and Jehova is the name for God in the Bible as well, seeing as the Torah is just basically the Old Testament I don't see much difference.

Sephiroth is a Hebrew name.

And there is a promised land in the Bible as well.

Also, the way Aerith is praying is completely different from how Jewish worshipers pray, Jews don't pray for things they need or for requests -- which is what Aerith does;she prays for angels to help her and her friends -- Jewish people pray more to discover what one should be and become.

 

[Harlequin]

Guys, I really think it was just a poorly realised universe by the game designers. There's definately religious symbolism in the game, but I doubt it has any bearing on Aeris' faith.

 

[coffeecup]

But Jenova is the Bad guy, and Jehova is the name for God in the Bible as well, seeing as the Torah is just basically the Old Testament I don't see much difference.

Sephiroth is a Hebrew name.

And there is a promised land in the Bible as well.

Also, the way Aerith is praying is completely different from how Jewish worshipers pray, Jews don't pray for things they need or for requests -- which is what Aerith does;she prays for angels to help her and her friends -- Jewish people pray more to discover what one should be and become.

Jenova is a perverted form a Jehova, so it's a distorted version of god which perfectly fits Jenova of the game. I mean Jenova is basically a deity in the game that brings great destruction upon earth.

Hebrew is a Jewish language, well at least from a cultural aspect.

The promised land is the book of Exodus which is one of the five books of Moses that the Jews solely rely upon. Christians tend to heavily rely upon the New Testament when Jesus was around as opposed to what was said in the Old. Sure they still use the events, but most of the teachings are straight out of the 4 gospels.

I don't remember what Aeris was praying about, but the big one with getting Holy sure was one of introspection and discovery.

Christianity does have relevance to the game; however, I think the scope of the religious allusions tend to constrict itself solely within Judaism.

 

[Harlequin]

Hebrew is a Jewish language, well at least from a cultural aspect.

As Christianity gained much of it's doctrine from Judaism. Hebrew isn't exclusive to the Jewish religion.

Christians tend to heavily rely upon the New Testament when Jesus was around as opposed to what was said in the Old.

As opposed? The Old Testament is part of the reference. Christians need the Old Testament as much as the New, the two make up the Bible.

 

[Saints&Storms]

Jenova is a perverted form a Jehova, so it's a distorted version of god which perfectly fits Jenova of the game. I mean Jenova is basically a deity in the game that brings great destruction upon earth.

Jenova Is more like Satan or the Anti-Christ though, really, what with useing vessels like Sephiroth and the clones to bid destruction and become a God or God himself.

Hebrew is a Jewish language, well at least from a cultural aspect.

Yeah, I know but it is actually Hebrew, while mainly used by Jewish its still a language all its own.

The promised land is the book of Exodus which is one of the five books of Moses that the Jews solely rely upon. Christians tend to heavily rely upon the New Testament when Jesus was around as opposed to what was said in the Old. Sure they still use the events, but most of the teachings are straight out of the 4 gospels.

Actually Jesus himself said he didn't want to abolish The Law - or the Old Testament - so we as Christians use it too.

I don't remember what Aeris was praying about, but the big one with getting Holy sure was one of introspection and discovery.

In her limit break Great Gospel, she prays for angels to come and help her, angels that are in Roman Style.

Christianity does have relevance to the game; however, I think the scope of the religious allusions tend to constrict itself solely within Judaism.

But she prays completely different than how Jews do; Jewish people don't pray for what they need or for requests.

 

[coffeecup]

I never really used Aeris in my party so I have no clue as to what her limit break looks like; however, angels are prevalent in Judaism as well. As for the word gospel, as ordinary vernacular we call M,M,L,J as the four gospels; however, the word "gospel" in it of itself is a reference to the gospel of the kingdom (as it is referenced in the Bible).

Also, when I said that Christians don't rely so heavily on the Old testament, I didn't mean that they disregard it in its entirety. But a lot of the teachings of love and forgiveness only flourished when Jesus came around preaching that stuff. I'm not a really religious person; however I have read the Bible (mostly) and there is a sweeping change in terms of themes as well as message when going from the Old to the New testaments. Christians tend to focus on the latter part more heavily while Judaism solely focuses on the Old.

I don't want to derail this into a religious argument, so I'm just going to make a concession that we have no idea as to her particular religion. All the developers likely wanted to impart is showing how she may be a part of the overarching religious themes as well as that she's just a really great kid

 

[Harlequin]

I don't want to derail this into a religious argument, so I'm just going to make a concession that we have no idea as to her particular religion. All the developers likely wanted to impart is showing how she may be a part of the overarching religious themes as well as that she's just a really great kid

You'd think that point would seal the deal, yet here we are 30+ posts later drawing up the same conclusions.

Don't be surprised if this thread continues for another few pages