Homosexual marriage - do you agree?

[Crash]

you're impossible you know that, why don't you go back and this time actually read my post, acording to your logic everything is part of nature and is all good and well, I told you why not, never lieing, by the way, I don't understand why would you say that I didn't used facts, when it seemed that it was you the one who was not using facts but twisting the thruth. either way, I can't keep spamming this thread with this useless discussing with you girl

QQ moar nub. If you can't be bothered to articulate a sensible position you shouldn't have a strong opinion on the subject, and in a better world wouldn't be allowed to vote said shallow opinion into law.

 

[QuickSilverD]

You haven't made an argument, just repeated your prejudices.

Have I? I'm just telling you just because something happens doesn't means it is right, if it were like that we would like in a perfect happy world, and we don't.

I told you many mistakes happen in nature, call it the method of try and err, but mistakes and errors do happen in nature, and my point was that just because homosexuality does exist it doesn't mean its right,

This is not an argument in any way, shape or form. random comparisons do not make a valid argument.

You were basically saying that homosexuality is right because it exist, and my argument is the one that is flawed?

I will try to explain it to you slowly so you can understand me:
natural selection works in such a way that what doesn't work gets eliminated. If homosexuality was not a workable treat, it would have not been present in all species.It would hve been eliminated, because only viable solutions remain.

Natural selection has nothing to do with homosexuality, it is the evolutionary process by which favorable traits that are heritable become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable traits that are heritable become less common. Heritable and successive generations are things that can only take place went real "reproduction" (male-female sex).

And even if it were, the unfavorable traits have to exist during some moment in time, don't they?

 

[Mega Girl]

Have I? I'm just telling you just because something happens doesn't means it is right, if it were like that we would like in a perfect happy world, and we don't.

I told you many mistakes happen in nature, call it the method of try and err, but mistakes and errors do happen in nature, and my point was that just because homosexuality does exist it doesn't mean its right,

You were basically saying that homosexuality is right because it exist, and my argument is the one that is flawed?

Natural selection has nothing to do with homosexuality, it is the evolutionary process by which favorable traits that are heritable become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable traits that are heritable become less common. Heritable and successive generations are things that can only take place went real "reproduction" (male-female sex).

And even if it were, the unfavorable traits have to exist during some moment in time, don't they?

except for the little tiny part that homosexual behaviour is attested in humans since paleolythic and in animals for quite a lot before that. see Bonobo monkeys. If you seriously believe this is randomly happening in nature all at the same time right now, you have reached the peak of cognitive dissonance.

 

[Serah]

Have I? I'm just telling you just because something happens doesn't means it is right, if it were like that we would like in a perfect happy world, and we don't.

Did you ever stop and think that maybe people who are homosexual don't think that heterosexual beings and what they do behind closed doors is right? So how is homosexuality any different? It's not wrong or right IMO. It's a huge fact of nature as MegaGirl has tried to express to you many a time now.

I told you many mistakes happen in nature, call it the method of try and err, but mistakes and errors do happen in nature, and my point was that just because homosexuality does exist it doesn't mean its right

So homosexuality is a mistake? Define mistake and tell me how it's one, because you're not making any sense here. You just keep running around in circles. You're too wrapped up in your biased/prejudiced ways because you don't believe in homosexuality. That's what this all boils down to.

You were basically saying that homosexuality is right because it exist, and my argument is the one that is flawed?

I didn't see her outright saying that homosexuality is right because it exists. Read my first reply. It's neither right nor wrong. It just EXISTS whether you want it to or not.

Natural selection has nothing to do with homosexuality, it is the evolutionary process by which favorable traits that are heritable become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable traits that are heritable become less common. Heritable and successive generations are things that can only take place went real "reproduction" (male-female sex).

And even if it were, the unfavorable traits have to exist during some moment in time, don't they?

What MegaGirl is trying to make you understand is that it has been a proven fact that homosexuality (be it between humans, primates, or other animal species) is a fact of nature. It's going to HAPPEN whether you want it to or not, but you are so bent and making this out to be wrong, that it almost seems as though you'll pull any theory you can come up with out of where the sun doesn't shine. Learn to deal with the fact that it's all a proven part of nature now and it's going to happen whether you like it or not.

 

[Bei Bei]

I don't really have a problem with homosexual marriage, I mean whatever floats your boat. Why deny them the joy and happiness of being joined together? If they're denied marriage, it's not like they are going to stop being homosexual.

What MegaGirl is trying to make you understand is that it has been a proven fact that homosexuality (be it between humans, primates, or other animal species) is a fact of nature. It's going to HAPPEN whether you want it to or not

I actually think that this is very true. Homosexuality didn't just come up in our time, or the time before ours, it's been going on for hundreds of years, but it's probably been more punishable to be open about it than it is now.

just because homosexuality does exist it doesn't mean its right

True, but it doesn't mean that it is wrong either. It is our cultures and societies that we live in which distinguish between right and wrong. What may seem normal and right in one society may not seem as acceptable in other societies.

 

[Crash]

Learn to deal with the fact that it's all a proven part of nature now and it's going to happen whether you like it or not.

This is really the heart of the issue. Those who oppose homosexual marriage wish that homosexuality didn't exist, opposing both on the same grounds. This isn't an argument, this is foolishness. This thread isn't a debate, it's a sandbox where a bunch of immature children whine that the world isn't the way they want it and a day-care center full of patient adults have to explain sternly why said children can't go about trying to ram square pegs into round holes. Lady Aerith gets props, or snaps, or whatever currency of respect she would prefer for pointing this out.

 

[Serah]

I don't really have a problem with homosexual marriage, I mean whatever floats your boat. Why deny them the joy and happiness of being joined together? If they're denied marriage, it's not like they are going to stop being homosexual.

Right! I love you for this post! lol Anyway, it's the truth. If they're now allowed to be married, that's not going to stop them being a homosexual person or stop them from having sex either.

I actually think that this is very true. Homosexuality didn't just come up in our time, or the time before ours, it's been going on for hundreds of years, but it's probably been more punishable to be open about it than it is now.

Homosexuality has been around for years upon years. It may have very well first derived from animals for all we know. People are just openly strict or against it now. I find it cruel that homosexuals are singled out so much.

True, but it doesn't mean that it is wrong either. It is our cultures and societies that we live in which distinguish between right and wrong. What may seem normal and right in one society may not seem as acceptable in other societies.

Yep, that's exactly what I said. I couldn't agree more with you on this post.

edited to add: I just saw your post Crash and it's the unfortunate truth.

 

[Bei Bei]

I don't know if it is just me or not, but it kind of seems like more guys are against homosexual marriages than girls which I don't really know why, but I think it's that image that guys get, two guys together, it's not right and kinda unmanly, so if they agree with gay marriages that they'll also be seen as unmanly if you know what I mean? If you don't then sorry because I really don't know how to explain it.

 

[Mega Girl]

The ban on homosexuality started with the Abrahamic religions. Spawned by small xenophobic tribes in the sands of the Middle east who needed as much human power as possible, of course homosexuality was seen as a sin since it was, in the opinion of the la w makers, preventing men from sleeping with women and making babies.

There has been a mummified paleolythic male body found in a glacier a while go that had spernm in his rectum. yes, Homosexuality isolder than Christianism.

In the context of Christianism it is worth mentioning that JC himself has never said a word against homosexuality. The ban on it comes from Paul's writings, and Paul was, evern according to the new Testament and even if we stretch our imagination to believe that JC was all that and a bag of chips, just some guy who never even met JC to begin with.

Paul had no authority to put a ban on it, and the catholic church spent most of its existence persecuting people based on the babbling of an old charlatan.

But that is bullshit.

From a biological POV, homosexuality exists. It existed all over the animal life's span on this planet, and guess what- this means that it has a meaning and a purpose.

and if you don't like it- here's something:
you have the right to not like it. I might personally think that you are a pathetic POS with the brains of a syphilitic lizard, but in Voltairian tradtion, I will die for your right to not like it and say so.

However. That does not give you the smallest right to try to impose your beliefs upon others and try to prevent them to live their lives fully.

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

The Greeks were big on homosexuality.

Some, such as Plato, went as far as to say that heterosexual relationships were inferior to homosexual ones.

Of course, the reasoning Plato gave was that women were inferior to men, and a relationship between a superior and an inferior was therefore inferior to a relationship between equals, or members of the same sex.

 

[Mega Girl]

and now we are drifting into mysoginism. Maybe later, need sleep.

 

[QuickSilverD]

From a biological POV, homosexuality exists. It existed all over the animal life's span on this planet, and guess what- this means that it has a meaning and a purpose.

since you are so convince of that, would you mind telling me what is that meaning and purpose

Did you ever stop and think that maybe people who are homosexual don't think that heterosexual beings and what they do behind closed doors is right?

Oh Yeah, straight sex and procreation is wrong and Bullshit

What MegaGirl is trying to make you understand is that it has been a proven fact that homosexuality (be it between humans, primates, or other animal species) is a fact of nature. It's going to HAPPEN whether you want it to or not, but you are so bent and making this out to be wrong, that it almost seems as though you'll pull any theory you can come up with out of where the sun doesn't shine. Learn to deal with the fact that it's all a proven part of nature now and it's going to happen whether you like it or not.

For the last time people, I am not denying homosexuality, I know it exist, that is the reason for what we are discussing here, in other to be against it first has to exist

 

[Serah]

First thing's first, don't yell at me again. That's not your place to do so, and second of all, nobody ever said that you were trying to say it didn't exist, but you're denying that it might be a right thing. What we're trying to explain to you that in the eyes of different people it's viewed as neither right nor wrong, it's just there...it will always be there, whether you want it to or not. What it seems to me is that you're trying to prove that homosexuality is wrong and that it's not a proven fact of nature, which it is. Also, I don't appreciate the sarcasm you had with me in your post either. I never did say that heterosexuality or procreating is wrong or bullshit. What I did say is that homosexual beings may see that is wrong in their eyes because they simply are not drawn to their opposite sex.

 

[QuickSilverD]

Sorry Lady Aerith, sometime I forget who I’m talking with,

Ok so you people say it is neither wrong nor right, the problem is that we humans have this innate capacity to judge all situations and things that happen (Consciousness, moral & rational thinking) we can classify everything into those two categories “Right & Wrong” depending of how much “benefit” can be obtained from it, either personally or globally.

That is why everything, not just homosexuality can be considerate right or wrong, but then again it is just the way I think

 

[OmniscientOnus]

but you're denying that it might be a right thing. What we're trying to explain to you that in the eyes of different people it's viewed as neither right nor wrong, it's just there...it will always be there, whether you want it to or not. What it seems to me is that you're trying to prove that homosexuality is wrong and that it's not a proven fact of nature, which it is.

I do believe that, in a debate, you are allowed to voice whatever side of the issue that you want. If you're going to debate your side, provide proof. You may have before, but not in this post.

Also, homosexuality is not a proven fact of anything. The fact that there are homosexuals out there is proven, obviously, but not the cause, be it nature or nurture.

Also, the first sentence I have quoted up there "what we're trying to explain...", it's really not your place to speak for other people. It would be much better to say "what I'm trying to explain...". It's just not nice to talk for others, even if you know for a fact that they agree with you.

 

[Serah]

This has nothing to do with the topic. Please stay on topic. If you have a problem with what I was saying in the debate then please keep it to yourself and don't post it out in the open, k? Also, if you go back and read MegaGirl and Crash's posts you'd realize what I went. All three of us were trying to explain a point. You don't like that? That's just too bad, isn't it? Stay on topic and don't complain about the way I prefer to debate in public if you don't like it.

 

[Tifa AC]

The Greeks were big on homosexuality.

Some, such as Plato, went as far as to say that heterosexual relationships were inferior to homosexual ones.

Of course, the reasoning Plato gave was that women were inferior to men, and a relationship between a superior and an inferior was therefore inferior to a relationship between equals, or members of the same sex.

I'm not realy shure that i understand well what you're talking about,but i can tell you for shure that in Past as now this matter about Homosexuality is a very bad think to be,here in greece.Dont believe what you're reading ask a Greek about the Greek history,about Homosexuality.

 

[Mega Girl]

I'm not realy shure that i understand well what you're talking about,but i can tell you for shure that in Past as now this matter about Homosexuality is a very bad think to be,here in greece.Dont believe what you're reading ask a Greek about the Greek history,about Homosexuality.

Tifa
please read the history of your country. PLEASE.

 

[QuickSilverD]

Tifa
please read the history of your country. PLEASE.

Not so much homosexuality as in man-man relation but more like man-boy

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

Greek pederasty, as idealized by the Greeks from Archaic times onward, was a relationship and bond between an adolescent boy and an adult man outside of his immediate family, and was constructed initially as an aristocratic moral and educational institution. As such, it was seen by the Greeks as an essential element in their culture from the time of Homer onwards.[1]

The term derives from the combination of pais (Greek for 'boy') with erastēs (Greek for 'lover'; cf. eros). In a wider sense it referred to erotic love between adolescents and adult men. The Greeks considered it normal for any man to be drawn to the beauty of a boy - just as much if not more than to that of a woman.[2] What they disagreed upon was whether and how to express that desire.

Pederasty is closely associated with the customs of athletic and artistic nudity in the gymnasia, delayed marriage for gentlemen, symposia and seclusion of women.[3] It is also integral to Greek military training, and an important factor in the deployment of troops.

Analogous relations between Greek women and adolescent girls have been reported by Plutarch, Xenophon and others.

Oh, and before anyone here calls the article Bullshit for being from Wikipedia, note that it cites its references.

I have my own theory about that, but I don't think you guys want to hear it

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

I'm not realy shure that i understand well what you're talking about,but i can tell you for shure that in Past as now this matter about Homosexuality is a very bad think to be,here in greece.Dont believe what you're reading ask a Greek about the Greek history,about Homosexuality.

I'm just paraphrasing what Plato wrote, I'm not judging homosexuality in any way, nor am I commenting currently on Greek history outside of what Plato wrote.