Love Beyond Friendship: A Cloti Club

[looneymoon]

Ohh the lifestream.net has its own forums? *runs to join*

As for the family matters: Denzel is pretty much the adopted son of Cloud and Tifa. Marlene is Barret's adopted daughter. She views Tifa and Barret as her primary mom/dad figure. However, she does not see Tifa and Barret as the parental unit, instead she sees Cloud and Tifa as the parental unit (pictures on the wall - Marlene is a perseptive girl!). Barret is thus part of the family due to his relationship with Marlene, but he is not part of the unit that lives in the 7th Heaven bar. When Barret is away, Cloud takes over as the father role, even though Cloud is not who she considers to be her "papa." He does fulfill the role of parental partnership with the motherfigure in her life, Tifa.

Well, my point is that it's not quite so simple as some people like to argue. The situation is a delicate one.


I would say the original game was ambiguous on the LT. While it's quite clear that Aeris' feelings for Cloud were mainly based on his resemblance to Zack, Cloud's feelings towards Aeris weren't so clearly expressed - though his feelings for Tifa were quite explicit. The "I think I can meet her there" line caused quite alot of contention because it could have really gone either way. I think AC definitly clears up the fact that after Aeris' death, Cloud's main feelings toward her were those of guilt, not romantic love.



Does anyone else think that Cloud/Aeris may have been a red herring in order to stray players from the plot twist? Because come the plot twist, all development for the relationship basically crumbles.

 

[Infinity D]

Yes, it was. It was entertaining while it lasted. But I don't think it was THAT huge of a distraction that some people can't accept the intended conclusion in retrospect to all the given evidence. Had Cloud and Aerith shared some unique and binding experiences unrelated to Aerith chasing the Zack in Cloud, I would consider it a tragic love story. But there was nothing of that sort. There were light flirtations, but nothing binding like a relationship. Aerith expressed interest in meeting the real Cloud, but we all know that never happened. We can play the what if she had lived game, but why should we ignore the creators' intent. After Aerith dies, we find out that Cloud was messed up with Zack's memories, Cloud had a crush on Tifa, Cloud tells Tifa it is her attitude that counts, the realization of mutual feelings and etc, etc. Why after Aerith dies? You said it, nice plot twist.

I wish everyone would just follow the narrative. No really, I said it before, I have a fear of delusions. It really does frighten me to think there are people who just don't get it or deliberately denies it. Makes me thing something is wrong with the world. Imagine the logic they apply in real life. Favoring the pairing is fine, but trying to make it canon with twisted logic is unforgiveable. They should be punished for their crimes! :devil2:

 

[EVA]

I wish everyone would just follow the narrative.

Things would be much easier that way, lol. But as I said before... a lot of them have played the KH games before the FF one, and so because of that two second scene of Cloud and Aeris meeting in the ending credits added to the warped 'truth' of that scene from the pink brigade, they've lost all common sense. ^^;

It's sad, really.

Hm, that reminds me. What do all of you think about Tifa being Cloud's light in KH2? It makes sense to me. I never though Aerith was his light, even before the KH2 with Tifa added came out.

Not that KH is canon FF or anything. I am just curious of other thoughts. : )

 

[Ryushikaze]

no the Clerith were very active inmediatly after AC was released. The hand reaching scene, the final scene and Calling were for them the "Final" confirmation of the Clerith love, still Cloti was seen as the winning side(I remember a poll in AC.Net in which Cloti won by a landside)

Not 'a' poll. Multiple.

then Maiden Who travels the Planet was released and was for them the final stone on the Cloti's coffin(and they still believe it's canon now).

That it is been ignored is better for the C/A group, because Maiden hurts the C/A cause and aids the C/T one. Well, it does if you read the whole thing, and not the two cherry picked quotes. Yay for context...

But with Crisis Core and the overwhelming amount of Cloti and Zerith in the Ultimanias they have decided to hide, and build their world based on the non-existant Clerith evidence.But if a LTD ensues, don't doubt they will come and give you a good laugh with their arguments.

And then call you a mean ole rabid when you disagree with them.

 

[Infinity D]

Hm, that reminds me. What do all of you think about Tifa being Cloud's light in KH2? It makes sense to me. I never though Aerith was his light, even before the KH2 with Tifa added came out.

I think it's a rather adorable concept. Cloud running away from his light, something warm, to protect that something/someone precious. No one better than Tifa.

I can't believe they say Tifa's light hurt him. For freak's sake. "Oh, the light is too strong. It hurts him." And yet that's why he runs to guard her from Sephy. Yerp. It all makes perfect sense!

 

[Amizon]

Yeah, the light part is another blow to Clerith fans! People would automatically think that Aerith is his light, but uh-uh! Tifa is.

 

[Cloti]

I also think Tifa is Cloud's light in Kingdom hearts, I love when she comes and blinds Cloud with her light, as Sephiroth said"you're running away because the light of the present is too much" it is amazing how the Clerith have managed to twist the events of KH II, in their essay about Cloud`s light in Kingdom hearts II, they still believe Aerith is the light and that Cloud is searching for his "inner" light in Kingdom hearts II, absolutely no base to believe that.....
@Ryu: yeah Maiden does hurt the Clerith cause more than help her, Aerith basically gave up on Cloud there. I really felt it hurt the Zerith cause tough with Aerith acting like a total b**** to Zack.

 

[looneymoon]

MotP was totally OOC if you actually take the time to play Crisis Core. Aeris totally blows off Zack, it's sad because it clearly shows that she's still hung up on the Zack inside Cloud. Irony hurts sometimes.

The evnts in KH2 mirror the events in AC. Cloud is running away from his light (Tifa/the family) in order to destroy his darkness (Sephiroth/his guilt/geostigma). The happier he is, the more afraid he becomes.

Also, in KH - Cloud is looking for someone. In Final Mix we find out this is Sephiroth, the person who corrupted him with darkness. Some peeps still insist he was looking for Aeris.

 

[Ryushikaze]

MotP was totally OOC if you actually take the time to play Crisis Core. Aeris totally blows off Zack, it's sad because it clearly shows that she's still hung up on the Zack inside Cloud. Irony hurts sometimes.

More accurately, CC renders Maiden OOC, but detail details. Maiden still shows Aerith is hung up on Zack. If you do include it in canon, it is most contextually appropriate to construe Aerith as playing hard to get, I think, much like Aerith being in denial is the best explanation for her apparent unawareness of Zack's demise, especially given the end of CC.

The evnts in KH2 mirror the events in AC. Cloud is running away from his light (Tifa/the family) in order to destroy his darkness (Sephiroth/his guilt/geostigma). The happier he is, the more afraid he becomes.

But but but but but but he HATESES Tifa. The pinkses tells us so!

Y'know what's sad? Certain pink higherups admit to never playing or watching CC or reading the novellas, yet still feel qualified to speak with authority on them.

Also, in KH - Cloud is looking for someone. In Final Mix we find out this is Sephiroth, the person who corrupted him with darkness. Some peeps still insist he was looking for Aeris.

Even though SHE is the person who first tells us Cloud is looking for Sephiroth!

 

[looneymoon]

More accurately, CC renders Maiden OOC, but detail details. Maiden still shows Aerith is hung up on Zack. If you do include it in canon, it is most contextually appropriate to construe Aerith as playing hard to get, I think, much like Aerith being in denial is the best explanation for her apparent unawareness of Zack's demise, especially given the end of CC.

That's some hardcore denial

But but but but but but he HATESES Tifa. The pinkses tells us so!

...Oh my gawd, did you totally see that look Cloud gives her? Like oh my gawd can't tha betch take a hint? I mean, srsly, she's totally macking on him when he CLEARLY doesn't want any of that. She knows he's Aeris' man!

...and did you see what she was wearing? ew.

Y'know what's sad? Certain pink higherups admit to never playing or watching CC or reading the novellas, yet still feel qualified to speak with authority on them.

I'm sure they have too much of a life to actually take the time to, you know... read. Naw, it's totally fine to go off little excerpts

Even though SHE is the person who first tells us Cloud is looking for Sephiroth!

Owned

 

[EVA]

Y'know what's sad? Certain pink higherups admit to never playing or watching CC or reading the novellas, yet still feel qualified to speak with authority on them.

-->

Spoiler

*cough*Eff Eff Gee*cough*

<--A certain someone admitted openly to me that she never played CC. :'D She said that the Cloud touching Tifa's face thing never happened, and she wouldn't believe it unless she saw it happen herself. She also said the claims of such a thing happening was a lie. x'D I'm not sure if she's erm, played the game since then (obviously not, since she thinks Aerith moved on from Zack at the end of it) , but we all know the Cloud caress is very much true. And since it's true, they now made up the theory that "Cloud would do that to anybody who was hurt". Or, "That was the past".

Funny how their ideas change when the truth comes out, isn't it?

As far as KH goes, the creators said Sephiroth is darkness, Tifa is light, and Aerith is a medium. There is no secret twist like, there are more than one kind of light, or Cloud rejected Tifa's light. >_>;

 

[Infinity D]

Speaking of Zack's demise....Gawwwddd. T_T

About the pinks. If they don't do their homework, then they can't possibly see how important Zack is to Aerith or Tifa to Cloud.

And if they did but managed to ignore how much Zack and Aerith meant to each other...just how is Cloud so much better than Zack? I mean, is Zack just not awesome enough for Aerith and Cloud is?? Because in MY book, Zack totally rockz mang.

I have a funny feeling this whole LTD thingy is just about 'winning' to them and not about what's canon. Sane people don't make a big fuss about what it means when boy-girl realize their feelings for each other. Grr. Selfish liddo kids.

 

[Cloti]

*cough*Eff Eff Gee*cough*<--A certain someone admitted openly to me that she never played CC

ugh I hate that name, queen of the rabids, I am not surprised to hear she hasn't played the game,it would make her cry so much zerith goodness xD

As far as KH goes, the creators said Sephiroth is darkness, Tifa is light, and Aerith is a medium. There is no secret twist like, there are more than one kind of light, or Cloud rejected Tifa's light

yeah but they Still twist it, Because Nomura said "I want people to think is Sephiroth if Cloud's darkness then Tifa is his light..... because think isn't equal to confirm.

And if they did but managed to ignore how much Zack and Aerith meant to each other...just how is Cloud so much better than Zack? I mean, is Zack just not awesome enough for Aerith and Cloud is?? Because in MY book, Zack totally rockz mang.

the problem is that they love Aerith so much and they can't bare to see her loosing to the boobz....
Aerith hasn't lost, she was never in a competition to begin with! she had already won a great man.

 

[Takumi]

Aerith hasn't lost, she was never in a competition to begin with! she had already won a great man.

Yes, I do agree!
Zack's not only great, but PERFECT for her^^

 

[Infinity D]

And since it's true, they now made up the theory that "Cloud would do that to anybody who was hurt". Or, "That was the past".

Yes, but Cloud didn't even give Aerith a caress. There's nobody he's done THAT to except Tifa. And if we're talking about the past, then they should listen to their own advice....Do they not realize how foolish they make themselves out to be? It's just very hard to believe these are grown people we're talking about ...I swear, if my younger sibling or cousins ever spout such nonsense, I'll smack them on the forehead and give them a :rant: LULZ

 

[Amizon]

Good arguments, especially with the caressing. She should feel special!

Also, I've not played Crisis Core. But I don't mind if you guys post spoilers because I'm probably never going to get around to play it.

 

[looneymoon]

Well, all the cutscenes are on youtube, so it's not hard to

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...english&search_type=&aq=1&oq=crisis+core+cuts

Despite Square saying it was a 100 hour game, the storyline mode is relatively short, so it shouldn't be too hard to get what's going on.

Of course, Zack/Aeris scenes certainly don't make up the majority, but the scenes they do have are so heartwrenching and cute

 

[EVA]

And if they did but managed to ignore how much Zack and Aerith meant to each other...just how is Cloud so much better than Zack? I mean, is Zack just not awesome enough for Aerith and Cloud is?? Because in MY book, Zack totally rockz mang.

I have a funny feeling this whole LTD thingy is just about 'winning' to them and not about what's canon. Sane people don't make a big fuss about what it means when boy-girl realize their feelings for each other. Grr. Selfish liddo kids.

Zack has always been my favorite... before he was introduced, Cloud was. But when I finished the game I absolutely fell in love with him because I really have a thing for minor characters. x'D Of course, he's not so minor anymore but I'm glad they told his story. And I'm glad his personality was the exact way I imagined it. Anyway, most of them think that opposites MUST attract, and that Zack and Aerith are too alike to be together as are Cloud and Tifa. I think I ranted about this before so I'll sum things up and say that's complete BS. People who relate understand one another much more. Not saying that opposites CANNOT attract, but that's not the way it HAS to be. Not to mention... If Clerith were the pairing, Tifa and Zack would be alone. It just wouldn't make sense. :/ Why would Square do something like that, especially when they spent so much time showing us the depth of the Zerith relationship? In every game, no one has been alone as a FOURTH wheel. Kain was alone in FFIV as a third wheel, and same for Quistis in FFVIII. But they literally had no other person. Zack has Aerith, and Cloud has Tifa. It's not hard. :'D

Ugh, it is so about them winning. >_> And not letting go of their 'pride'. I was a Clerith before I played the game because I got false information. After I played the game-- actually during the game-- I realize that Cloud and Tifa were the intended pair. I was a Clerith up to the point where Aerith asked Cloud if Tifa was his boyfriend and at the time I selected "no". I thought, hm, Cloud and Aerith seem to have more chemistry because you don't see much of Tifa at the beginning of the game. After the short beginning, I realized how much Tifa meant to Cloud and visa versa.

 

[Infinity D]

Yeah. I agree with everything you just said. I also find that I have a thing for minor, or more accurately for me, supporting characters as well-not particularly just in video games though. I think it's kind of charming when the attention it's not all on them, but they're still good characters...being kinda vague here .

I recall the opposites attract BS. That's totally fairy-tale. That reminds me, I really don't think Cloud is a Leo, I just don't. Squall might work, but Cloud, no. Maybe a Leo moon, but not a Leo. Either way, Aerith may have been a Leo's opposite, but not Rinoa. So that theory doesn't work.

 

[Stella]

The argument I hear most often now is that games outside of the original FF7 (CC, DOC, Last Order) are not canon because they weren't in the original storyline. I remember debating the Zerith side in the LTD before it was closed and I mentioned how important Zack was to Aerith, how she wears pink for him, her denial of his death, ect. and a Clerith supporter responded that she hadn't played Crisis Core because she just didn't see it as canon. She said all pairing arguments should be made based off of the original game...

And while there certainly is enough evidence of Cloti in the original game, Crisis Core just provides even more proof that the intended pairings were ZackxAerith and CloudxTifa. It just annoys me that now people are going as far as saying it's not canon just so they can continue to say Cloud and Aerith were the intended pairing, Aerith didn't have anything really serious going on with Zack, and on and on.