Rinoa Rant
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SwissCheeseHeart22
...I'm sucha noooob.
Sorry guys, but I'm sort of a Rinoa lover. XD A lot of you guys seem to find her whiney and annoying, but...
She's seventeen years old. She's put into life threatening situations along with her friends. Remember, her friends are all SeeDs, and they've been TRAINED to keep cool and collected in battle and dangerous situations. Rinoa really has very little experience if any with that sort of thing. She is just a rebel girl who is trying to one up her dad. And if you've got a sucky relationship with your dad, you're gonna do what you can to get even with him (trust me, I would know).
She's a teenager. And she learns she has sorceress powers, she could possibly die, and so on. It IS a lot of stress for somebody to take, especially somebody who's new to all this stuff.
Also, it sounded to me like she and Seifer were more of just a hookup-y thing than anything actually serious. Besides, Seifer was always babbling on about his "romantic dream", PLUS, he never once mentioned Rinoa to Zell or Squall or anybody towards the beginning of the game (before meeting her). And Squall is mad attractive. So can you really blame Rinoa for wanting to chase after him? A girl's only so strong!
Quistis was less whiney, but she was also mature beyond her years. I never really minded Quistis. I just had a very hard time identifying with her character. Rinoa I could identify with very well. But maybe that's just cause I'm an whiney and annoying teenager girl, hmmm? Selphie would have had a potential to be whiney, but she was sort of trained against it by the time we were introduced to her. I mean, hello... she was in the army.
Rinoa was a very real person. And it's easy to talk and say "she was whiney" or "she was too hung up on things" but really, how would you guys act in her situation? Probably just as flakey. ...She was also a great change after having to put up with Tifa for however long. XP
...And I'm just a sucker for the Squall/Rinoa thing.
She's seventeen years old. She's put into life threatening situations along with her friends. Remember, her friends are all SeeDs, and they've been TRAINED to keep cool and collected in battle and dangerous situations. Rinoa really has very little experience if any with that sort of thing. She is just a rebel girl who is trying to one up her dad. And if you've got a sucky relationship with your dad, you're gonna do what you can to get even with him (trust me, I would know).
She's a teenager. And she learns she has sorceress powers, she could possibly die, and so on. It IS a lot of stress for somebody to take, especially somebody who's new to all this stuff.
Also, it sounded to me like she and Seifer were more of just a hookup-y thing than anything actually serious. Besides, Seifer was always babbling on about his "romantic dream", PLUS, he never once mentioned Rinoa to Zell or Squall or anybody towards the beginning of the game (before meeting her). And Squall is mad attractive. So can you really blame Rinoa for wanting to chase after him? A girl's only so strong!
Quistis was less whiney, but she was also mature beyond her years. I never really minded Quistis. I just had a very hard time identifying with her character. Rinoa I could identify with very well. But maybe that's just cause I'm an whiney and annoying teenager girl, hmmm? Selphie would have had a potential to be whiney, but she was sort of trained against it by the time we were introduced to her. I mean, hello... she was in the army.
Rinoa was a very real person. And it's easy to talk and say "she was whiney" or "she was too hung up on things" but really, how would you guys act in her situation? Probably just as flakey. ...She was also a great change after having to put up with Tifa for however long. XP
...And I'm just a sucker for the Squall/Rinoa thing.
Sohryuden666
So She Moves Forward...
Okay, Rinoa really wasn't the best lead in the series, but.....my feelings are a little mixed. When I first saw her during that dance scene with Squall, I thought her character was pretty adorable. Then, as I progressed further into the game, I noticed a few things about her that just downright irritated me.
The main reason I didn't grow very fond of Rinoa's character was that she was a damsel in distress. It seems like a total step down from the female leads of previous Final Fantasy games. I don't think disappointed is a strong enough word for how I felt when I realized this. I also considered Rinoa's character to be a bit childish. I realize she's only seventeen, but in the world of Final Fantasy, your age and maturity don't always go together. To put it simply, I always thought of Final Fantasy as a world where the main characters have to grow up and face reality at a very young age. For some reason, even though Rinoa was the type who fought for what she believed in (which is admirable), I still found her character lacking.
I'll have to admit, though, that Rinoa at times was also very endearing, usually when she was talking to Squall. Seeing her in those moments, I understand why Squall fell for her the way he did. Rinoa was just a very kind girl, and she seemed very determined to get through to him. It must be a nice (maybe a little annoying) feeling. Squall, I'm sure, just wasn't used to someone who's that direct.
All in all, Rinoa may have been a pretty bad female lead, but it's something I ended up getting used to. Honestly, I think more people would have liked Rinoa if she got more character development. It's like she was only there to add to Squall's development. Still, I personally thought her good character traits that were shown managed (although barely) to outweigh her bad ones.
The main reason I didn't grow very fond of Rinoa's character was that she was a damsel in distress. It seems like a total step down from the female leads of previous Final Fantasy games. I don't think disappointed is a strong enough word for how I felt when I realized this. I also considered Rinoa's character to be a bit childish. I realize she's only seventeen, but in the world of Final Fantasy, your age and maturity don't always go together. To put it simply, I always thought of Final Fantasy as a world where the main characters have to grow up and face reality at a very young age. For some reason, even though Rinoa was the type who fought for what she believed in (which is admirable), I still found her character lacking.
I'll have to admit, though, that Rinoa at times was also very endearing, usually when she was talking to Squall. Seeing her in those moments, I understand why Squall fell for her the way he did. Rinoa was just a very kind girl, and she seemed very determined to get through to him. It must be a nice (maybe a little annoying) feeling. Squall, I'm sure, just wasn't used to someone who's that direct.
All in all, Rinoa may have been a pretty bad female lead, but it's something I ended up getting used to. Honestly, I think more people would have liked Rinoa if she got more character development. It's like she was only there to add to Squall's development. Still, I personally thought her good character traits that were shown managed (although barely) to outweigh her bad ones.
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aintnoscrub
Ex-Soldier
Ahhh i never could get my head around her, she was one of those characters that you felt you had to pull up a positive and negative list to decide if you liked her.
Flagg said:
I like this a lot. Not every character can know what to do perfectly in every situation. Rinoa struck me as someone who was getting through what looked like a pretty rough situation the best way she knew how, and I saw a lot of strength in that. To be honest I forget about her relationship with Seifer all the time, because no one in the game seemed to care, either. (Was that even necessary to the plot? I can't remember.)
"When Rinoa and Squall meet each other. Rinoa is already dating Seifer and really at that moment she really has no reason to reject the guy. But just feel a little ticked off that she flirts around with Squall like she isn't dating anybody. I mean, argh. Poor Seifer"
This is the only thing I didn't like about Rinoa. I started playing FF8 for the first time in years, and I didn't even remember that she liked Seifer at first. I mean, why? And then suddenly he's like off dying somewhere or whatever and she doesn't even care? ¬¬
This is the only thing I didn't like about Rinoa. I started playing FF8 for the first time in years, and I didn't even remember that she liked Seifer at first. I mean, why? And then suddenly he's like off dying somewhere or whatever and she doesn't even care? ¬¬
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Midnight Memoire
Oh! Glory
I didn't completely dislike Rinoa. She and Ashe seem to fall in the same boat as "whiners" to me. As compared to a leading lady such as Yuna or even Garnett, she failed to compare.
She dealt with things a bit off. It's like... She was brave one moment and then a wimp the next. Honestly, it confused me quite a bit. Her scenes with Squall seemed to be thrown in just when you started to want to beat her face in for being so... annoying.
I hate to say this but I really can't go into too much detail on this one. As I said before, I didn't completely dislike her but she was certainly not a favorite of mine. I just wish she didn't whine so darn much...
She dealt with things a bit off. It's like... She was brave one moment and then a wimp the next. Honestly, it confused me quite a bit. Her scenes with Squall seemed to be thrown in just when you started to want to beat her face in for being so... annoying.
I hate to say this but I really can't go into too much detail on this one. As I said before, I didn't completely dislike her but she was certainly not a favorite of mine. I just wish she didn't whine so darn much...
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rinoa seemed a little emo (not as bad as squall tho) and to fragile, she needed to toughen up...
give the girl a break, she's just 17 and have lots of things happening in her life in the "fantasy" world she's in... i also have a friend who was just like rinoa when we were teens... but college and exposure to the "real" world helped change her for the better... she's still 21 but she matured like more than 10 years or something... she's even more mature than me! Y_Y
Does anybody feel like Rinoa is a bad female lead ?
Nope sure don't I actually like her. She's the opposite of Squall balancing things out.
Feel like Rinoa could be the worst Final Fantasy lead lady.
I doubt that.
- When Rinoa and Squall meet each other. Rinoa is already dating Seifer and really at that moment she really has no reason to reject the guy. But just feel a little ticked off that she flirts around with Squall like she isn't dating anybody. I mean, argh. Poor Seifer.
Ye, so what? Sometimes U ask out someone you don't really care for just cuz you were physically attracted. I'm sure Seifer couldn't have cared less. If he did, he would have said so in the dozens of encounters later on.
- During the Parade she runs off alone to see a dangerous Witch by- herself ? And then ends up causing trouble for both Squall and Irvine. Mean Rinoa almost screwed up, Squall and Irvine's undercover mission. Both of them could of gotten caught and shot. Not to mention she made both Irvine and Squall panic and stress out.
Gay, ok, this part...... I haven't played in years. everytime I start I give up hours later because of other game priorities atm. Infact I will play this game tonight, but I thought that was her job? Didn't she have some sort of magic/sorceress power depressant charm or something to put on or trick her to putting on? It made the story more exciting, and we all knew she wasn't going to die. Now and then you need situations like these to up the ante. Screwed it up? Irvine rememberd who Edea was and wasn't going to shoot her anyways, regardless of what Rinoa did. So are you saying you'd like a "stress free" FF game xD hahaha
- She doesn't try and stop Seifer from turning away from Evil ?- In fact she really doesn't care about Seifer at all anymore - ? Okay Seifer's gone bad, let's jump towards the next attractive guy in the flock ? ( Squall )
At this point it wouldn't have mattered, Edea (Adel) had control over him. She probably couldn't have done anything until she obtained her powers which happened alot later in the game anyways.
-When both of the main Gardens head into war. The only thing Rinoa cares about is Squall's ring ? and makes Zell panic and and stress out in the middle of chaos so he can grab a copy of Squall's Ring for Rinoa ?
Hahahha why not? I thought girls LOVED jewlery lol. Zell's a complete jack ass for agreeing to help out anyways. Again, the results of what happened from this were truly entertaining and fun to watch, especially when Squall had to save her with that Flying thingy.
- Then even though she's scared of fighting/ dislikes seeing violence. She Fights in a war anyways and when she gets into trouble (AGAIN ) She creates more panic for everybody. More Panic for Zell and make Squall stress out to the max.
You really like that word "stress" even if Rinoa hadn't been there , believe me there would have been stress. If it weren't for Rinoa AFTER major events had happened. I think they'd be more "stressed" without her role.
- Yeah falls into coma. Squall is worried. More panic/ stress for Squall. >_>
Too much use of the word "stress" It's a Final Fantasy game, there will be plenty of "stress" to go around
- When she gains the powers that were once from Edea/ Marton. Just feel like Rinoa brings more sadness and heavy emotions onto the group. Everybody is trying to be strong and get ready to fight the final last evil. But just feel like Rinoa's rants about saying how she could die/ Squall's going to end up killing me. Just brings down the group a little bit.
I think her "positive" attitude throughout the game gives her the "pass" on this one. She kept the group in high spirits for the majority of the game. Even someone with good intentions will fall on their face from time to time. Progress without struggle isn't progress xP.
- She's way too open about her feelings and HER emotions. What about Irvine's sadness, what about Zell or Seifer or even Quistis's feelings ? Selphie's ?
That's THEIR problem not Rinoas. It's up to the individual to let out their emotions and these people were obviously not willing to share. she was supposed to play the polar opposite of squall which was introverted. Again, it was up to these characters to do it on their own, and it just wasn't in teh cards. True, I would have liked to do some backtracking in game while playing as each character, but that was development issues and NOT Rinoas fault.
If you feel like you agree/ disagree on this please speak up/ share your views :3
[ Especially you Rinoa lovers/ Haters out there ]
Too bad, I'm not a Rinoa Lover/Hater, just someone with common sense.
Just feel like Rinoa was a major stepdown from the strong and mighty Tifa we saw and witnessed kicking Shrina/ Sephiroth butt in VII.
Hmmmmm can't be RECYLCING old character traits over and over now can we? I think it was spread out a bit more with Quisitis and Selphie being there. Rinoa IS the ultimate sorceress now right? I think she's on a different level than Tifa now.
Nope sure don't I actually like her. She's the opposite of Squall balancing things out.
Feel like Rinoa could be the worst Final Fantasy lead lady.
I doubt that.
- When Rinoa and Squall meet each other. Rinoa is already dating Seifer and really at that moment she really has no reason to reject the guy. But just feel a little ticked off that she flirts around with Squall like she isn't dating anybody. I mean, argh. Poor Seifer.
Ye, so what? Sometimes U ask out someone you don't really care for just cuz you were physically attracted. I'm sure Seifer couldn't have cared less. If he did, he would have said so in the dozens of encounters later on.
- During the Parade she runs off alone to see a dangerous Witch by- herself ? And then ends up causing trouble for both Squall and Irvine. Mean Rinoa almost screwed up, Squall and Irvine's undercover mission. Both of them could of gotten caught and shot. Not to mention she made both Irvine and Squall panic and stress out.
Gay, ok, this part...... I haven't played in years. everytime I start I give up hours later because of other game priorities atm. Infact I will play this game tonight, but I thought that was her job? Didn't she have some sort of magic/sorceress power depressant charm or something to put on or trick her to putting on? It made the story more exciting, and we all knew she wasn't going to die. Now and then you need situations like these to up the ante. Screwed it up? Irvine rememberd who Edea was and wasn't going to shoot her anyways, regardless of what Rinoa did. So are you saying you'd like a "stress free" FF game xD hahaha
- She doesn't try and stop Seifer from turning away from Evil ?- In fact she really doesn't care about Seifer at all anymore - ? Okay Seifer's gone bad, let's jump towards the next attractive guy in the flock ? ( Squall )
At this point it wouldn't have mattered, Edea (Adel) had control over him. She probably couldn't have done anything until she obtained her powers which happened alot later in the game anyways.
-When both of the main Gardens head into war. The only thing Rinoa cares about is Squall's ring ? and makes Zell panic and and stress out in the middle of chaos so he can grab a copy of Squall's Ring for Rinoa ?
Hahahha why not? I thought girls LOVED jewlery lol. Zell's a complete jack ass for agreeing to help out anyways. Again, the results of what happened from this were truly entertaining and fun to watch, especially when Squall had to save her with that Flying thingy.
- Then even though she's scared of fighting/ dislikes seeing violence. She Fights in a war anyways and when she gets into trouble (AGAIN ) She creates more panic for everybody. More Panic for Zell and make Squall stress out to the max.
You really like that word "stress" even if Rinoa hadn't been there , believe me there would have been stress. If it weren't for Rinoa AFTER major events had happened. I think they'd be more "stressed" without her role.
- Yeah falls into coma. Squall is worried. More panic/ stress for Squall. >_>
Too much use of the word "stress" It's a Final Fantasy game, there will be plenty of "stress" to go around
- When she gains the powers that were once from Edea/ Marton. Just feel like Rinoa brings more sadness and heavy emotions onto the group. Everybody is trying to be strong and get ready to fight the final last evil. But just feel like Rinoa's rants about saying how she could die/ Squall's going to end up killing me. Just brings down the group a little bit.
I think her "positive" attitude throughout the game gives her the "pass" on this one. She kept the group in high spirits for the majority of the game. Even someone with good intentions will fall on their face from time to time. Progress without struggle isn't progress xP.
- She's way too open about her feelings and HER emotions. What about Irvine's sadness, what about Zell or Seifer or even Quistis's feelings ? Selphie's ?
That's THEIR problem not Rinoas. It's up to the individual to let out their emotions and these people were obviously not willing to share. she was supposed to play the polar opposite of squall which was introverted. Again, it was up to these characters to do it on their own, and it just wasn't in teh cards. True, I would have liked to do some backtracking in game while playing as each character, but that was development issues and NOT Rinoas fault.
If you feel like you agree/ disagree on this please speak up/ share your views :3
[ Especially you Rinoa lovers/ Haters out there ]
Too bad, I'm not a Rinoa Lover/Hater, just someone with common sense.
Just feel like Rinoa was a major stepdown from the strong and mighty Tifa we saw and witnessed kicking Shrina/ Sephiroth butt in VII.
Hmmmmm can't be RECYLCING old character traits over and over now can we? I think it was spread out a bit more with Quisitis and Selphie being there. Rinoa IS the ultimate sorceress now right? I think she's on a different level than Tifa now.
DarkClaymore
Fatal Noob
I don't know...
I don't hate Rinoa, but neither do I like her.
At first she was quite annoying. But later, she caused a lot of drama, and I like drama. So she did her part well. I love her role as the "drama maker", but I don't really like her personality.
While she is still annoying IMO, she was vital to the plot and made it great.
So I can't bring myself to dislike her even though she can be annoying at times.
I don't hate Rinoa, but neither do I like her.
At first she was quite annoying. But later, she caused a lot of drama, and I like drama. So she did her part well. I love her role as the "drama maker", but I don't really like her personality.
While she is still annoying IMO, she was vital to the plot and made it great.
So I can't bring myself to dislike her even though she can be annoying at times.
Never been over my head about Rinoa, but no I don't think that she is a bad lead.
She's different than most girls in Final Fantasy series, and I think that's a good thing. She's not really that much of a push-over, and likes to talk. I think it's nice to not see a same badass herione in every FF.
She's different than most girls in Final Fantasy series, and I think that's a good thing. She's not really that much of a push-over, and likes to talk. I think it's nice to not see a same badass herione in every FF.
EvenAngels
In Your Mind, Stealing Your Dreams
Right, I'm gonna post my opinions the same way DoomTra1n did.
Does anybody feel like Rinoa is a bad female lead ?
Not at all. I feel she was a realistic teenager who gave a good contrast to Squall. She was kind and gentle to a lot of the other characters, but also very strong, albeit not really in the physical sense...
Feel like Rinoa could be the worst Final Fantasy lead lady.
- When Rinoa and Squall meet each other. Rinoa is already dating Seifer and really at that moment she really has no reason to reject the guy. But just feel a little ticked off that she flirts around with Squall like she isn't dating anybody. I mean, argh. Poor Seifer.
She was 17! I'm sorry if this offends or upsets anyone, but when your that young, its highly likely that relationships come and go no matter how serious you may think they are. (I'm speaking from experience here, as I got engaged at 18 and we split when I was 20.)
Besides, did he ever bring it up? If he was really hurt by it, Siefer's exactly the kind of guy who would say something about it.
- During the Parade she runs off alone to see a dangerous Witch by- herself ? And then ends up causing trouble for both Squall and Irvine. Mean Rinoa almost screwed up, Squall and Irvine's undercover mission. Both of them could of gotten caught and shot. Not to mention she made both Irvine and Squall panic and stress out.
Well, to be fair... She's 17! xD She had an idea, no one listened to her. She decided to do things herself. It's something a lot of teenagers do, some even into adulthood; rebel. On top of that just natural behaviour, she was blantantly attempting to aid the SeeD members. However, since she didn't have SeeD training, she messed up. Anyone would have messed that up, except for those who were trained.
- She doesn't try and stop Seifer from turning away from Evil ?- In fact she really doesn't care about Seifer at all anymore - ? Okay Seifer's gone bad, let's jump towards the next attractive guy in the flock ? ( Squall )
Er... You do realize Siefer was entirely brainwashed by the next time she saw him? On top of that, he was unconcsious after Squall had defeated on the parade. Next thing she sees is the person he was protect throw a clumn of ice through Squall... Then he imprisoned her... You think she'd want to talk to again after that?
-When both of the main Gardens head into war. The only thing Rinoa cares about is Squall's ring ? and makes Zell panic and and stress out in the middle of chaos so he can grab a copy of Squall's Ring for Rinoa ?
Other than the fact that this lead to some really cool scenes, Squall would have been going that way anyway.
I mean, he saved that kid and the guy with the aerial unit attacked him, so he would have been out there anyway...
As for Rinoa, as far as I rememer (I need to go through it again to check) she asked for the ring before the Garden's found each other. Zell just hadn't finished it.
- Then even though she's scared of fighting/ dislikes seeing violence. She Fights in a war anyways and when she gets into trouble (AGAIN ) She creates more panic for everybody. More Panic for Zell and make Squall stress out to the max.
To be honest... Yes, she did. But then it was, as you put it, a war. They were going to be stressed anyway. Then add to the fact that without Rinoa, the war wouldn't have really ended when it did because they wouldn't have been able to compress time. And she is able to lighten people's spirits, so she could aid in removing that stress.
- Yeah falls into coma. Squall is worried. More panic/ stress for Squall. >_>
Well that was hardly her fault. xD And besides, if someone you were falling in love with fell into a coma, you'd be worried. It just showed the bond between them growing. I mean, just look at the scene on the bridge when he's carrying her to Esthar. ^__^
- When she gains the powers that were once from Edea/ Marton. Just feel like Rinoa brings more sadness and heavy emotions onto the group. Everybody is trying to be strong and get ready to fight the final last evil. But just feel like Rinoa's rants about saying how she could die/ Squall's going to end up killing me. Just brings down the group a little bit.
... Wouldn't you be scared? Especially after hearing/witnessing the people you care about hunting down and fighting with what you've become? You'd need reassurance. Anyone would. Can you imagine what it must feel like to know that there's a change your closest friends could attack and kill you?
- She's way too open about her feelings and HER emotions. What about Irvine's sadness, what about Zell or Seifer or even Quistis's feelings ? Selphie's ?
Well... To be honest, in my opinion humans are naturally selfish anyway. I mean, its entirely possible to say that, for example, Quistis was only kind to Rinoa so that Squall didn't grow to dislike her (as in Quistis). And Irvine didn't take into consideration the other party members' feelings on the train, trying to tell a sob story to them feel for him. Everyone has their own feelings in mind first.
Just feel like Rinoa was a major stepdown from the strong and mighty Tifa we saw and witnessed kicking Shrina/ Sephiroth butt in VII.
I was glad for the change. I mean, Tifa, Terra, Agrias... They're cool, but they're all fighters. I think it was nice to have a change again. Like Rosa in IV. She wasn't really a fighter, she was just Cecil's lover who cared for him, like Rinoa to Squall.
Too many hard kicking, "badass" female leads would 'cause the series to get stale...
Does anybody feel like Rinoa is a bad female lead ?
Not at all. I feel she was a realistic teenager who gave a good contrast to Squall. She was kind and gentle to a lot of the other characters, but also very strong, albeit not really in the physical sense...
Feel like Rinoa could be the worst Final Fantasy lead lady.
- When Rinoa and Squall meet each other. Rinoa is already dating Seifer and really at that moment she really has no reason to reject the guy. But just feel a little ticked off that she flirts around with Squall like she isn't dating anybody. I mean, argh. Poor Seifer.
She was 17! I'm sorry if this offends or upsets anyone, but when your that young, its highly likely that relationships come and go no matter how serious you may think they are. (I'm speaking from experience here, as I got engaged at 18 and we split when I was 20.)
Besides, did he ever bring it up? If he was really hurt by it, Siefer's exactly the kind of guy who would say something about it.
- During the Parade she runs off alone to see a dangerous Witch by- herself ? And then ends up causing trouble for both Squall and Irvine. Mean Rinoa almost screwed up, Squall and Irvine's undercover mission. Both of them could of gotten caught and shot. Not to mention she made both Irvine and Squall panic and stress out.
Well, to be fair... She's 17! xD She had an idea, no one listened to her. She decided to do things herself. It's something a lot of teenagers do, some even into adulthood; rebel. On top of that just natural behaviour, she was blantantly attempting to aid the SeeD members. However, since she didn't have SeeD training, she messed up. Anyone would have messed that up, except for those who were trained.
- She doesn't try and stop Seifer from turning away from Evil ?- In fact she really doesn't care about Seifer at all anymore - ? Okay Seifer's gone bad, let's jump towards the next attractive guy in the flock ? ( Squall )
Er... You do realize Siefer was entirely brainwashed by the next time she saw him? On top of that, he was unconcsious after Squall had defeated on the parade. Next thing she sees is the person he was protect throw a clumn of ice through Squall... Then he imprisoned her... You think she'd want to talk to again after that?
-When both of the main Gardens head into war. The only thing Rinoa cares about is Squall's ring ? and makes Zell panic and and stress out in the middle of chaos so he can grab a copy of Squall's Ring for Rinoa ?
Other than the fact that this lead to some really cool scenes, Squall would have been going that way anyway.
I mean, he saved that kid and the guy with the aerial unit attacked him, so he would have been out there anyway...As for Rinoa, as far as I rememer (I need to go through it again to check) she asked for the ring before the Garden's found each other. Zell just hadn't finished it.
- Then even though she's scared of fighting/ dislikes seeing violence. She Fights in a war anyways and when she gets into trouble (AGAIN ) She creates more panic for everybody. More Panic for Zell and make Squall stress out to the max.
To be honest... Yes, she did. But then it was, as you put it, a war. They were going to be stressed anyway. Then add to the fact that without Rinoa, the war wouldn't have really ended when it did because they wouldn't have been able to compress time. And she is able to lighten people's spirits, so she could aid in removing that stress.
- Yeah falls into coma. Squall is worried. More panic/ stress for Squall. >_>
Well that was hardly her fault. xD And besides, if someone you were falling in love with fell into a coma, you'd be worried. It just showed the bond between them growing. I mean, just look at the scene on the bridge when he's carrying her to Esthar. ^__^
- When she gains the powers that were once from Edea/ Marton. Just feel like Rinoa brings more sadness and heavy emotions onto the group. Everybody is trying to be strong and get ready to fight the final last evil. But just feel like Rinoa's rants about saying how she could die/ Squall's going to end up killing me. Just brings down the group a little bit.
... Wouldn't you be scared? Especially after hearing/witnessing the people you care about hunting down and fighting with what you've become? You'd need reassurance. Anyone would. Can you imagine what it must feel like to know that there's a change your closest friends could attack and kill you?
- She's way too open about her feelings and HER emotions. What about Irvine's sadness, what about Zell or Seifer or even Quistis's feelings ? Selphie's ?
Well... To be honest, in my opinion humans are naturally selfish anyway. I mean, its entirely possible to say that, for example, Quistis was only kind to Rinoa so that Squall didn't grow to dislike her (as in Quistis). And Irvine didn't take into consideration the other party members' feelings on the train, trying to tell a sob story to them feel for him. Everyone has their own feelings in mind first.
Just feel like Rinoa was a major stepdown from the strong and mighty Tifa we saw and witnessed kicking Shrina/ Sephiroth butt in VII.
I was glad for the change. I mean, Tifa, Terra, Agrias... They're cool, but they're all fighters. I think it was nice to have a change again. Like Rosa in IV. She wasn't really a fighter, she was just Cecil's lover who cared for him, like Rinoa to Squall.
Too many hard kicking, "badass" female leads would 'cause the series to get stale...
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HighwindPilot
White Mage
Addressing the post above ^
Her age isn't really a good excuse for flirting around or running off.
I understand the whole thing about not everyone taking relationships too seriously at that age, but that doesn't mean it's okay to, in turn, flirt around (especially with someone you've just met). I'm sure even the people who act like it's not a big deal, wouldn't like it if their partners did it.
Second, yeah, teenagers have a tendency to be thick-headed when their ideas are ignored, but that doesn't mean the same rules apply to a life or death matter. If it's a life-threatening thing, you usually know when to chill out and not try anything stupid for the sake of "going through with it anyway". In most cases, if you do, then that kind of does warrant being called an idiot...which brings us back to Rinoa.
Also, yes, we realized Seifer was brainwashed, but that doesn't mean the party did. They thought Seifer was just beginning to fight for a different (and wrong) cause. So she should have at least tried to stop him. The fact that she didn't was a bit sad.
And not that she was the only culprit of this (looking at you especially, Squall), but she sure did lay it on thick with the "Woe is me" speeches. One could easily understand how that could annoy someone.
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Looking at these things collectively (including the ring situation with Zell), she comes across as pretty selfish.
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I was never too fond of her as a character. I can't say I hated her, but I definitely didn't like her.
Her age isn't really a good excuse for flirting around or running off.
I understand the whole thing about not everyone taking relationships too seriously at that age, but that doesn't mean it's okay to, in turn, flirt around (especially with someone you've just met). I'm sure even the people who act like it's not a big deal, wouldn't like it if their partners did it.
Second, yeah, teenagers have a tendency to be thick-headed when their ideas are ignored, but that doesn't mean the same rules apply to a life or death matter. If it's a life-threatening thing, you usually know when to chill out and not try anything stupid for the sake of "going through with it anyway". In most cases, if you do, then that kind of does warrant being called an idiot...which brings us back to Rinoa.
Also, yes, we realized Seifer was brainwashed, but that doesn't mean the party did. They thought Seifer was just beginning to fight for a different (and wrong) cause. So she should have at least tried to stop him. The fact that she didn't was a bit sad.
And not that she was the only culprit of this (looking at you especially, Squall), but she sure did lay it on thick with the "Woe is me" speeches. One could easily understand how that could annoy someone.
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Looking at these things collectively (including the ring situation with Zell), she comes across as pretty selfish.
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I was never too fond of her as a character. I can't say I hated her, but I definitely didn't like her.
TL; DR
Different characters appeal to different people: that's why every Final Fantasy game has a varied cast. Usually the characters that appeal to some people the most appeal to others the least. So it's not surprising Rinoa has detractors as well as fans: she's a character Square took a risk with, by making her less than perfect and cardboard-cutout.
For a totally different perspective, check out this scathingly funny playthrough/recap of FFVIII demonstrating that Rinoa is the only one of the group with a lick of sense!
I found her a great lead: capable, intelligent, independent, individual and original, with believable motives. She's the Ordinary Person flung into an extraordinary situation, trying to roll with the punches, make friends, and put up with the neuroses of a very screwed-up young man.
Okay. To individual questions.
- When Rinoa and Squall meet each other. Rinoa is already dating Seifer and really at that moment she really has no reason to reject the guy. But just feel a little ticked off that she flirts around with Squall like she isn't dating anybody. I mean, argh. Poor Seifer.
Three things.
1. I didn't get the impression Rinoa was dating Seifer at the time. Later, when Rinoa discusses her feelings about him, she's not quite sure what they had. She refers to their time together as if it had been a year before. Seifer certainly doesn't act like he cares about her at any point in the story. My impression was a fleeting, past association for a single summer, in which Rinoa had a crush on him, and he was busy puffing out his chest and trying to impress some random girl he promptly forgot about.
2. Teenagers never, ever, ever flirt with anybody else, and never ever ever get attracted to someone else, after they've had their first crush? Ahahaha. Teens flirt with lots of people. That's how they learn the ropes of life.
3. Aeris/Squall/Tifa. Love triangles are a stock trope of Final Fantasy, and of drama in general going back to ancient times. "Who will get the girl?" is a plot, or at least a source of dramatic tension. "Two people going steady" isn't.
- During the Parade she runs off alone to see a dangerous Witch by- herself ? And then ends up causing trouble for both Squall and Irvine. Mean Rinoa almost screwed up, Squall and Irvine's undercover mission. Both of them could of gotten caught and shot. Not to mention she made both Irvine and Squall panic and stress out.
Oy. If Rinoa had succeeded, she'd be denounced as a totally unbelievable Mary Sue: a superhero ordinary girl who can do what the miltary-trained guys cannot. Female leads can't win: either they're too competent, or not competent enough. I guess she needed to sit in the background not doing anything at all. But then we'd be criticizing her for doing nothing. See the problem?
Instead, Rinoa almost succeeds, shows a lot of pluck and initiative, but gets nailed by a ginormous plot device: the bangle paralyzes her, when it was supposed to paralyze the sorceress. Said plot device is woven in as the first hint warning us that Rinoa is a sorceress herself.
That moment also forces Squall to give a damn about somebody, showing the gradual steps in his maturity from callous, self-absorbed sod to semi-functional young man.
As for Irvine, he was stressed out for a totally different reason; he was reduced to the shakes at the thought of having to kill Matron. Rinoa had nothing to do with that. On the other hand, Quistis took leave utter leave of her senses -- as did everyone else -- to go back and talk to Rinoa when they were on duty. WTF was with that?! They were the ones being idiots. Why single out Rinoa?
- She doesn't try and stop Seifer from turning away from Evil ?- In fact she really doesn't care about Seifer at all anymore - ? Okay Seifer's gone bad, let's jump towards the next attractive guy in the flock ? ( Squall )
When did she have a chance to try and turn Seifer away from evil? When Seifer got seduced by Edea, Edea cast a spell to paralyze everybody. The next time Rinoa sees Seifer, Squall is fighting for his life with Seifer and the sorceress. Rinoa and Irvine rush in to save Squall's butt. Then Squall gets nearly killed, and Rinoa is imprisoned. Once she's freed because of her father, she rushes back to save the rest of the party. You'd rather she'd have forgotten them and gone looking for Seifer to tell him he was being a prat? That would've worked even less well than the Odine Bangle fiasco.
Watching Seifer being a raving lunatic, and Squall being heroic and brave and hurt -- great way to help her make up her mind which one she was attracted to, eh?
-When both of the main Gardens head into war. The only thing Rinoa cares about is Squall's ring ? and makes Zell panic and and stress out in the middle of chaos so he can grab a copy of Squall's Ring for Rinoa ?
Rinoa asked about the ring BEFORE the Gardens had even spotted each other. Zell was being a goofball, not Rinoa, delaying Squall because he was trying to get his friends hitched. (And then the ring became a running joke: Squall had to keep looking out for her, because he wanted it back.)
- Then even though she's scared of fighting/ dislikes seeing violence. She Fights in a war anyways and when she gets into trouble (AGAIN ) She creates more panic for everybody. More Panic for Zell and make Squall stress out to the max.
She's scared of fighting, dislikes violence, but she's not afraid to fight for what she believes in (remember, she was a resistance leader) or for her friends. I don't see why that's a bad thing: it just makes her more brave, to be helping out despite being at a disadvantage.
I can't see how we can blame her for the huge plot device of having the whole side of the Garden fall off so she nearly plunged to her death. Unlike Indiana Jones and young!Kirk in the latest Trek flick, Rinoa doesn't have magical Powers of Levitation to Avoid Falling Off a Cliff!
Look, the scriptwriters kept shoving Rinoa into the damsel in distress role so the Knight could save her. The "Being a Knight" motif is a major theme in FFVIII. The twist being that Squall is reluctant to BE a knight, whereas Seifer, evil, wanted to BE a knight. See how that works?
Alas, the "Knight" role doesn't work without the damsel getting herself in distress. But unlike most damsel-figures, Rinoa is plucky and fights back. The real answer, of course, is to avoid Damsel in Distress Syndrome. Nonetheless, I thought Rinoa was a fairly original and unusual representative of that age-old archetype.
- Yeah falls into coma. Squall is worried. More panic/ stress for Squall. >_>
See above. Again, not Rinoa's fault; it's the script yanking our chain. It's the dratted Damsel in Distress plot. Like that never happens in a Final Fantasy game! Frankly, Garnet suddenly losing her voice in FFIX was far more inexplicable and annoying.
If you don't like being the knight who saves the damsel in distress, yeah, Rinoa is not gonna work for you, but neither would Princess Leia -- who was a pretty cool character, in many people's eyes.
- When she gains the powers that were once from Edea/ Marton. Just feel like Rinoa brings more sadness and heavy emotions onto the group. Everybody is trying to be strong and get ready to fight the final last evil. But just feel like Rinoa's rants about saying how she could die/ Squall's going to end up killing me. Just brings down the group a little bit.
I found it fairly dramatic. Rinoa had willingly let herself be sealed up in the Sorceress Monument so she wouldn't endanger her friends or the guy she loves. After he frees her, she has to grapple with the fact that one of them may wind up killing the other. That's...good romantic tragedy and tension. Again, "happy relationship where everything's going swimmingly" may be easier in the real world, but doesn't make for conflict and dramatic tension in a story.
Stress is a necessary ingredient in FF games: it's the tension that drives the adventure forward. And it's usually better when "stress" or dramatic tension is tied to the characters and their relationships, not just some huge impersonal Giant Rock From the Sky About To Pulverize the Planet. Sure, that can be a component, but in the end, these stories are about people, not the plot devices. People, with all their screw-ups and hangups and imperfections.
- She's way too open about her feelings and HER emotions. What about Irvine's sadness, what about Zell or Seifer or even Quistis's feelings ? Selphie's ?
That makes it sound like Rinoa's only thinking of herself, and her emotions are the only ones that matter. Sounds more like Squall than Rinoa! Rinoa tries to get Squall to come out of his shell, show more emotion. She takes him to task for being hard on Zell, saying that Squall needs to consider the feelings of those who look up to him as a leader. She worries about all of them, about how they've been trained not to acknowledge their emotions. And there are plenty of moments in the story when Zell, Selphie, Quistis, even "Whatever..." Squall are showing their emotions. (How about that scene in Galbadia Garden when Squall is all moody about Seifer's death, and turns it around so it's all about himself, yelling 'Nobody's going to talk about me like this!" and storming out of the room?) Or how about Instructor Trepe, who really is a fairly mature character compared to the rest of these kiddies, going all angsty on her student about "as of midnight, I am no longer an instructor," or leaving her post in the Sorceress Assassination Mission because she's gotten her panties in a twist about Rinoa? I don't see Rinoa as any more emotiional than the rest of them; and she's an ordinary kid, not trained military personnel.
There's a reason why I call this game the Legion of Angsty Teenagers. They remind me of students I had while teaching college freshmen. But I find them entertaining, rather than annoying. As Lulu would say a few games later, "Kids!"
Different characters appeal to different people: that's why every Final Fantasy game has a varied cast. Usually the characters that appeal to some people the most appeal to others the least. So it's not surprising Rinoa has detractors as well as fans: she's a character Square took a risk with, by making her less than perfect and cardboard-cutout.
For a totally different perspective, check out this scathingly funny playthrough/recap of FFVIII demonstrating that Rinoa is the only one of the group with a lick of sense!
I found her a great lead: capable, intelligent, independent, individual and original, with believable motives. She's the Ordinary Person flung into an extraordinary situation, trying to roll with the punches, make friends, and put up with the neuroses of a very screwed-up young man.
Okay. To individual questions.
- When Rinoa and Squall meet each other. Rinoa is already dating Seifer and really at that moment she really has no reason to reject the guy. But just feel a little ticked off that she flirts around with Squall like she isn't dating anybody. I mean, argh. Poor Seifer.
Three things.
1. I didn't get the impression Rinoa was dating Seifer at the time. Later, when Rinoa discusses her feelings about him, she's not quite sure what they had. She refers to their time together as if it had been a year before. Seifer certainly doesn't act like he cares about her at any point in the story. My impression was a fleeting, past association for a single summer, in which Rinoa had a crush on him, and he was busy puffing out his chest and trying to impress some random girl he promptly forgot about.
2. Teenagers never, ever, ever flirt with anybody else, and never ever ever get attracted to someone else, after they've had their first crush? Ahahaha. Teens flirt with lots of people. That's how they learn the ropes of life.
3. Aeris/Squall/Tifa. Love triangles are a stock trope of Final Fantasy, and of drama in general going back to ancient times. "Who will get the girl?" is a plot, or at least a source of dramatic tension. "Two people going steady" isn't.
- During the Parade she runs off alone to see a dangerous Witch by- herself ? And then ends up causing trouble for both Squall and Irvine. Mean Rinoa almost screwed up, Squall and Irvine's undercover mission. Both of them could of gotten caught and shot. Not to mention she made both Irvine and Squall panic and stress out.
Oy. If Rinoa had succeeded, she'd be denounced as a totally unbelievable Mary Sue: a superhero ordinary girl who can do what the miltary-trained guys cannot. Female leads can't win: either they're too competent, or not competent enough. I guess she needed to sit in the background not doing anything at all. But then we'd be criticizing her for doing nothing. See the problem?
Instead, Rinoa almost succeeds, shows a lot of pluck and initiative, but gets nailed by a ginormous plot device: the bangle paralyzes her, when it was supposed to paralyze the sorceress. Said plot device is woven in as the first hint warning us that Rinoa is a sorceress herself.
That moment also forces Squall to give a damn about somebody, showing the gradual steps in his maturity from callous, self-absorbed sod to semi-functional young man.
As for Irvine, he was stressed out for a totally different reason; he was reduced to the shakes at the thought of having to kill Matron. Rinoa had nothing to do with that. On the other hand, Quistis took leave utter leave of her senses -- as did everyone else -- to go back and talk to Rinoa when they were on duty. WTF was with that?! They were the ones being idiots. Why single out Rinoa?
- She doesn't try and stop Seifer from turning away from Evil ?- In fact she really doesn't care about Seifer at all anymore - ? Okay Seifer's gone bad, let's jump towards the next attractive guy in the flock ? ( Squall )
When did she have a chance to try and turn Seifer away from evil? When Seifer got seduced by Edea, Edea cast a spell to paralyze everybody. The next time Rinoa sees Seifer, Squall is fighting for his life with Seifer and the sorceress. Rinoa and Irvine rush in to save Squall's butt. Then Squall gets nearly killed, and Rinoa is imprisoned. Once she's freed because of her father, she rushes back to save the rest of the party. You'd rather she'd have forgotten them and gone looking for Seifer to tell him he was being a prat? That would've worked even less well than the Odine Bangle fiasco.
Watching Seifer being a raving lunatic, and Squall being heroic and brave and hurt -- great way to help her make up her mind which one she was attracted to, eh?
-When both of the main Gardens head into war. The only thing Rinoa cares about is Squall's ring ? and makes Zell panic and and stress out in the middle of chaos so he can grab a copy of Squall's Ring for Rinoa ?
Rinoa asked about the ring BEFORE the Gardens had even spotted each other. Zell was being a goofball, not Rinoa, delaying Squall because he was trying to get his friends hitched. (And then the ring became a running joke: Squall had to keep looking out for her, because he wanted it back.)
- Then even though she's scared of fighting/ dislikes seeing violence. She Fights in a war anyways and when she gets into trouble (AGAIN ) She creates more panic for everybody. More Panic for Zell and make Squall stress out to the max.
She's scared of fighting, dislikes violence, but she's not afraid to fight for what she believes in (remember, she was a resistance leader) or for her friends. I don't see why that's a bad thing: it just makes her more brave, to be helping out despite being at a disadvantage.
I can't see how we can blame her for the huge plot device of having the whole side of the Garden fall off so she nearly plunged to her death. Unlike Indiana Jones and young!Kirk in the latest Trek flick, Rinoa doesn't have magical Powers of Levitation to Avoid Falling Off a Cliff!
Look, the scriptwriters kept shoving Rinoa into the damsel in distress role so the Knight could save her. The "Being a Knight" motif is a major theme in FFVIII. The twist being that Squall is reluctant to BE a knight, whereas Seifer, evil, wanted to BE a knight. See how that works?
Alas, the "Knight" role doesn't work without the damsel getting herself in distress. But unlike most damsel-figures, Rinoa is plucky and fights back. The real answer, of course, is to avoid Damsel in Distress Syndrome. Nonetheless, I thought Rinoa was a fairly original and unusual representative of that age-old archetype.
- Yeah falls into coma. Squall is worried. More panic/ stress for Squall. >_>
See above. Again, not Rinoa's fault; it's the script yanking our chain. It's the dratted Damsel in Distress plot. Like that never happens in a Final Fantasy game! Frankly, Garnet suddenly losing her voice in FFIX was far more inexplicable and annoying.
If you don't like being the knight who saves the damsel in distress, yeah, Rinoa is not gonna work for you, but neither would Princess Leia -- who was a pretty cool character, in many people's eyes.
- When she gains the powers that were once from Edea/ Marton. Just feel like Rinoa brings more sadness and heavy emotions onto the group. Everybody is trying to be strong and get ready to fight the final last evil. But just feel like Rinoa's rants about saying how she could die/ Squall's going to end up killing me. Just brings down the group a little bit.
I found it fairly dramatic. Rinoa had willingly let herself be sealed up in the Sorceress Monument so she wouldn't endanger her friends or the guy she loves. After he frees her, she has to grapple with the fact that one of them may wind up killing the other. That's...good romantic tragedy and tension. Again, "happy relationship where everything's going swimmingly" may be easier in the real world, but doesn't make for conflict and dramatic tension in a story.
Stress is a necessary ingredient in FF games: it's the tension that drives the adventure forward. And it's usually better when "stress" or dramatic tension is tied to the characters and their relationships, not just some huge impersonal Giant Rock From the Sky About To Pulverize the Planet. Sure, that can be a component, but in the end, these stories are about people, not the plot devices. People, with all their screw-ups and hangups and imperfections.
- She's way too open about her feelings and HER emotions. What about Irvine's sadness, what about Zell or Seifer or even Quistis's feelings ? Selphie's ?
That makes it sound like Rinoa's only thinking of herself, and her emotions are the only ones that matter. Sounds more like Squall than Rinoa! Rinoa tries to get Squall to come out of his shell, show more emotion. She takes him to task for being hard on Zell, saying that Squall needs to consider the feelings of those who look up to him as a leader. She worries about all of them, about how they've been trained not to acknowledge their emotions. And there are plenty of moments in the story when Zell, Selphie, Quistis, even "Whatever..." Squall are showing their emotions. (How about that scene in Galbadia Garden when Squall is all moody about Seifer's death, and turns it around so it's all about himself, yelling 'Nobody's going to talk about me like this!" and storming out of the room?) Or how about Instructor Trepe, who really is a fairly mature character compared to the rest of these kiddies, going all angsty on her student about "as of midnight, I am no longer an instructor," or leaving her post in the Sorceress Assassination Mission because she's gotten her panties in a twist about Rinoa? I don't see Rinoa as any more emotiional than the rest of them; and she's an ordinary kid, not trained military personnel.
There's a reason why I call this game the Legion of Angsty Teenagers. They remind me of students I had while teaching college freshmen. But I find them entertaining, rather than annoying. As Lulu would say a few games later, "Kids!"
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HighwindPilot
White Mage
You know, there's one thing that the above post definitely makes apparent, and credit to both Auronlu and the poster who actually stated this already:
Rinoa, or her "character", was a definite drama provider. And her character either "suffered" or "prospered" because of this role, depending on one's personal reaction to that.
Because while I found a lot of those traits or scenes of/with her to be quite annoying or frustrating, it's true that there'd been no drama in the given scene otherwise, or at least not as much. This holds true for the love triangle thing, the running off thing, etc... Because when it came to the running off thing, my first thought was, "Yeah, she shouldn't have succeeded, but it's more that she should've never left in the first place." However, if that were case, there'd have been no drama there. So it's really about how you take that, I suppose.
Rinoa, or her "character", was a definite drama provider. And her character either "suffered" or "prospered" because of this role, depending on one's personal reaction to that.
Because while I found a lot of those traits or scenes of/with her to be quite annoying or frustrating, it's true that there'd been no drama in the given scene otherwise, or at least not as much. This holds true for the love triangle thing, the running off thing, etc... Because when it came to the running off thing, my first thought was, "Yeah, she shouldn't have succeeded, but it's more that she should've never left in the first place." However, if that were case, there'd have been no drama there. So it's really about how you take that, I suppose.
I didnt like Rinoa the first time round. Think it was the second time round I started to like her. I seen her as a spoilt brat who kept getting in the way all the time. But then her love for Squall made me melt. It was beautiful. How she didnt want the weight of the world to bury him, specially how old he was. How teens werent meant to feel this way, they needed to have fun and enjoy life.
They were complete opposites, but Rinoa managed to get him to come out of his shell for alittle while and it was lovely.
They were complete opposites, but Rinoa managed to get him to come out of his shell for alittle while and it was lovely.
HOw do think I fell my niece has the same frickin birthday as Rinoa and she also has her tantrums and selfish behavior......annoying!!! well Rinoa was my 1st choice for a long time but now its Selphie 'cause Rinoa is just too 1 dimensionalfor my liking?!
If you think about it that is how some people are in the real world. In my opinion that made her much better of a heroin then Tifa or Yuna (both of which showed little if any flaws). What makes a good heroin is how realistic they are not how powerful they are or how noble they are.
.SEPHIROTH.
ONE WINGED ANGEL
in my opinion Rinoa was just a bad female lead, she was your average teenage girl, she put un-needed stress on the group as stated above, im an anti-dramatic person and thats what she was all about, the coma didnt help her in my eyes, look at Terra and Tifa she is nothing compared to them and imho just an un-inspired character