Tifa and Cloud

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Onceman said:
I'd have to say he's more obsessed with Aerith than Tifa. Either way, he's pretty emotionally castrated in both the game and movie (more so in the movie).
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He feels guilty in his obsession over Aeris, and the guilt and fear of replicated that failure with those he loves (Tifa and his family) is paralysing him emotionally through half of Case of Tifa and half of Advent Children.

It's the pressure from friends from the past and present, plus the fact that his fear of actions causing harm on his loved ones is actually now putting them in danger, is another attribute to "curing" him of his pain.

I don't agree he's as castrated in the movie - only half it. By the time he returns to the city, he's feeling better, though the epilogue implies his road to full recovery and being able to embrace his future maybe a gradual one.

Either way, we can see how well he gets on with Tifa in Case of Tifa in the flashbacks, before the pain of the past begins to cripple him, and like those soldiers in real life who find in peace time, that acts from the war begin to haunt them more, he isolates himself. This happens in real life, and it makes no difference how much people love you, those soldiers can't respond, in fact it makes them more guilty and they spiral more.

So a great deal of Advent Children isn't showing Cloud and Tifa in a decent light, as its at the very low point of their relationship. As I said, it takes everyone's help and the immediate danger presented to kick Cloud into gear.

However his love for Tifa is clearly laid out in Case of Tifa. He's not by himself. We know Tifa loves Cloud. We know Cloud cares for Tifa (both these angles are covered in FF7). You don't go and live together as platonic friends when these emotions remain buried. It doesn't happen. You certainly don't start a family together.

In story telling, stories presume on the understanding of real life circumstances informing the audience unless the audience are told to think otherwise. Couples adopt children as a rule, not platonic friends. If it was the latter the story would have to justify such an unusual circumstance - it doesn't, because the story presumes the audience understand the set up; you don't create a family as two platonic people trying to ignore feelings/past feelings for each happen. That's TOO fantasy! :)

Cloud does care for Tifa, and Case of Tifa builds that romantic partnership up, so advent Children could set the dramatic scene where their lives have grumbled into nothing. Very standard set drama building.
 
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Cloud is emotionally unstable; I don't think he'll ever be able to get into a relationship. While he may live in the present; his state of mind is strapped to the past.
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I don't think that's true. Cloud's fear of failure is crippling at times, but that does not render him unable to be in a relationship. CoT shows that Cloud is happy being by Tifa's side and feels confident only if she is there. He is the one who initiates things in Case of Tifa. This shows that Cloud wants a relationship. He wants to be forever with her as he says. And he does follow up on it: they move in together, they raise children together, they run a business together etc.

This relationship faces problems when Cloud's fear of failure resurfaces. Being reminded of his failures and those he was unable to protect (delivering Elmyra's flowers to Aeris' death site) brings back that fear. What if he loses what he's built now?
"The happier he is, the more scared he becomes." - Nomura

Then he gets geostigma and faces not only his own mortality, but the fact that he is letting people down, he is hurting them and he is, once again, unable to protect them. Especially Denzel, who also has geostigma.

So, Cloud runs. Like he ran from Sephiroth in the past, letting Aeris die. He is scared until he is finally told by everyone (Aeris, Vincent, Marlene, Reno, Tifa etc.) to not be an ass and actually face his problems. He defeats Sephiroth and learns to forgive himself for what he calls his failures. Then he returns. He looks at Marlene and says he is back. He heals Denzel and smiles at Tifa. Then they all have a big family + friends reunion outside Seventh heaven (as shown by the second picture by his desk).

Cloud rerturns to that relationship. If Cloud is unable to get into any relationship, he would have been shown a loner since the end of the Meteor ordeal. But he didn't go away and live in the mountains, throwing stones at people like a madman. He started a family, and despite difficulties, he returns to that in the end. That's what the drama is all about, and one of AC's central themes: family & survival.

And as a final note, people with emotional problems aren't necessarily unable to be with a man or woman. I mean, it's popular in fanfiction, but it isn't necessarily the case for every person.
 
I know this sounds crazy but in AC, me and my friend, noticed Cloud checking Tifa out like, when Cloud saw her injured after the Tifa vs Loz fight, I could see his eyes "strolling" through her body (if you know what I mean :lol:) they woke up in 'Seventh Heaven', Cloud stood in the middle between his bed and Tifa's and looked at her. Tifa is Cloud's childhood friend, she was there for him before they met Aerith. that's what I think

There's a part where after the fight Tifa faints again saying "Marlene!" then Cloud gets the geostigma pain and he also faints. They were both left alone together. SE didn't make a mistake on that scene folks....
 
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...Please, tell me you're joking. Cloud wasn't checking her out. He was making sure no other part of her was injured. As for the whole LTD thing, it cracks me up so much anymore how people get so worked up about it. Who gives a shit if CloudxTifa have became canon or not? That doesn't mean Cloud would just stop loving Aerith and fans would stop being Cleriths either.

I think that Cloud was in love with Aerith (and still is), but I also felt that at the end of AC, he got past his angst and remorse and all that jive and has the potential to move on with Tifa. Just because Aerith is dead, doesn't mean he has to stop loving her, but Cloud is perfectly capable of moving on with Tifa, loving her, even marrying her and her popping out his babies, and still love Aerith. It's not as though Tifa's her replacement, but I think Aerith would have wanted Cloud to be happy and move on with her. I used to be a strong Clerith, but as of late I've become neutral to both pairings. I like them both. I like the sweetness and tragedy of Clerith and I like the happiness and family aspect of Cloti ^_^
Please don't kill me, AG. I'm just being honest!
 
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Dude, dude...
"Cloud feels this, Cloud feels that" "Cloud has feelings for her, and she has feelings for him".
No, no...just...stop it, no...

Nowhere in any game, spin off, or movie (with the exception of Maiden who travels the planet; which is written by a Clerith supporter) do we have any solidarity that Cloud has feelings for "her" or that "she" definitely has that affection towards Cloud.
I just don't see it. I hate the fact that everyone drags in foreign material to prove their points. Last Order, AC, DOC, Kingdom Hearts, and fan-written materials...just stop it. Maybe you'll find a clue that Tifa or Aerith have some form of emotional bond towards Cloud, but that's a no brainer.

But when I hear people say "Cloud feels this way"...you're totally wrong! The only form of emotion that we ever see Cloud enact is the "oh noes, she died, I will miss her" scene after Aerith's death. But in case you weren't paying attention to the wrest of the characters; they were all sad and hurt and disturbed; not just Cloud. If you didn't have Tifa in your party at that point in time, then you didn't see her run off the screen balling her eyes out because her friend had died. IMO, she was more upset than Cloud was.

All of this "he belongs with her/she belongs with him"...it's all fan-created crap. Bah!
 
As for the whole LTD thing, it cracks me up so much anymore how people get so worked up about it. Who gives a shit if CloudxTifa have became canon or not? That doesn't mean Cloud would just stop loving Aerith and fans would stop being Cleriths either.
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The thing is, some people aren't getting as worked up over it as you might think. A lot of us just like to debate vigorously, and that's where certain people really seem to offended; they think being asked to defend their opinion amounts to a personal attack, which is really silly.

Yes it is a pointless discussion, but every topic on this forum is pointless. It's no different than people getting worked up whether Sephiroth jumping or falling into the reactor is canon.
 
Actually I beg to differ. Every topic in this forum is not pointless. If you love to debate vigorously, then why don't you hop over to the debate section and actually debate on something that's meaningful instead of getting into such a heated debate on pixelated, fictional characters.
 
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I guess you're referring to the Mako Reactor. Yeah, they're discovering the cure for cancer in there, with topics like "Is there such thing as proper Grammar any more?" and "A Random Act of Kindess..." I wonder what they would say if I went there and posted "Who gives a shit whether people trust random acts of kindness?"

You stress "pixelated, fictional characters" as though perhaps I should find something more meaningful to do with 3-5% of my waking hours. Why stop with the LTD? There's nothing meaningful about cosplaying, for example. Some cosplayers spend hours grooming their hair and weeks looking up esoteric costume accessories, just so they can post themselves for strangers to look at. Would it be OK for me to go into the Cosplay section and post "Who gives a shit whether you cosplayed as a freaking Mystic Quest character?"

Consider what Nomura says on the subject. From a magazine interview:

Open Ending: To this day, FFVII continues to draw some fire for its ambiguous ending. It's a satisfying conclusion [and beautiful to behold], but it doesn't hold the player's hand through a lengthy denouement the way 16-bit Final Fantasy games do. That shift in presentation, Tetsuya Nomura insists, was entirely intentional-- the goal was to make players think a little harder and pay closer attention to a more complex storyline.

In other words, FF7 was designed to encourage reflection. We're supposed to think about what happens, and that's best accomplished through debate. This isn't about celebrating or bashing fictional pairings - it's about blowing off steam a few times a week by debating the best way to interpret a subplot of a video game. The ones who get "worked up" over it are the ones who should probably stick to the clubs.

And again, if the LT-based discussion is pointless and stupid, then so are all the other ones going on in here, including 99% of the debate forum topics. Instead of spitting on what others do with their downtime, we should be candid with the fact that all of us dedicate some portion of our lives to trivial diversions... and we should respect each other's right to do that.

Anyway, back on topic.

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To address the OP, Cloud and Tifa can certainly make a couple. In fact, they meet the definition of "couple" as exemplified by couples in previous FF games. Aerith and Cloud could also have made a legitimate couple, and AC drives home the point that Aerith will under no circumstances be forgotten or leave Cloud's heart. But AC also makes a point to convey closure; Cloud is letting go of his past and embracing his future. At the same time, Maiden shows Aerith accepting Cloud's place among the living with Tifa at his side. I don't see a dynamic asserting Cloud and Aerith waiting up for each other, which I think is the fundamental missing ingredient to a love-beyond-death story. If future FF7 entries choose to develop Cloud's romantic inclinations further, all signs point to it being with Tifa.
 
Tifa and Cloud together? We don't really know, I read somewhere that Nomura was giving hints on who is Cloud's partner, its really up to us to uncover those hints. However, since I favor Aerith more (biased ^_^) my answer would be: maybe or maybe not.XD
 
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As I recall, Nomura says something along the lines of "the answers are there, we're here to tell you outright". In other words, there are definitive answers, but neither the story or the creators are going to underline them and pin them on the heads of the audience.

At least you're honest Neo B: you have a personal preference and you want to stick to it - that's really cool. Afterall, entertainment must entertain, and if it entertains you imagining x rather y, imagine x.

But even Nomura has said they are together. Kitase has said he always saw them ending up together, and the Compilation (Case of Tifa, Advent Children, Case of Barrett, Last Order and even Maiden point towards their relationship) - whether people identify with their relationship or not - says they are a couple. The only thing which offers ambiguity is FF7 on its own, where the player can decide.

But then ultimate, its up to the audience to decide what they prefer, but I think people attempting to suggest that SE created a film which followed the ambiguity of the game are placing preference into fact. The game had an LT because it was a game. The film doesn't require that ambiguity and the answer is there, just played out gently to respect the integrity of the characters (can you really see Cloud being all lovey dovey?) and the expectations of the fans.
 
CloudxTifa? Definitely a possibility. And a very good match, too.

But all throughout AC, Cloud was obviously still thinking about Aerith. Eh, both couples work, although I do love CloudxAerith.

Too bad Sephiroth had to go kill her... =/

Their children would've looked so cute!
 
im definitely a cloudxtifa fan but isn't aerith and cloud going out? haha
but oh well majority wins and i begin liking cloudxaerith too haha
 
Clould they be lovers? They WERE lovers!, the scene in FFVII where they were on the mountain was blatant. OK, the relationship gets a little complicated after that because Cloud goes into 'sullen' mode, but nobody with a single brain cell can deny that they shagged. Maybe he was thinking of Aerith as they were at it, who knows? I doubt Tifa minded :)
 
*sigh* Here's how it pans out.

Not enough sufficient info that says how far into a relationship Cloud and Tifa currently are. Nor is there sufficient info to tell us if/when Cloud and Tifa take this relationship further. Dare I say it... they smooch? :O

However, we do know that he and Tifa are in a relationship, which means he could be dropping Aerith a bit. But... In AC he's all emo over Aerith. Yet, in the end, we see that things are getting better for him and that smooch seems more possible.

To sum it all up, just be happy that the smooch could be on the way. Truly, I think this is how it would play out:

*Cloud gets Tifa flowers.

Cloud: um....these are for you.
Tifa: Thank you! What's the occasion?
Cloud: No reason
Tifa: *sniffs flowers* They're beautiful.
Cloud: Yeah.

*long awkward silence. Cricket cricket*

Cloud: Well, I gotta make deliveries.
Tifa: *drops flowers, big smooch with Cloud*


And that's all folks! So for you fellow Clifa's we'll have to keep ourselves satisfied with that. Or whatever end you want to think up. No use crying over spilt milk; no use complaining about the past; no use lingering over the dead. Yay, an end.

P.S. IMO, if they do make any other movie or whatnot, there darn well better be some spiky-haired babies in it!!!!

~*The Dragon Hath Spoken*~
 
*facepalm* There's already an LTD thread going on in FFVII >.< Why does there have to be more than one of these and I'm sorry, but don't people have anything better to debate about? Seriously...
 
*facepalm* There's already an LTD thread going on in FFVII >.< Why does there have to be more than one of these and I'm sorry, but don't people have anything better to debate about? Seriously...
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You know, if I could put mods/admins on ignore this wouldn't be an issue. Don't YOU have anything better to do than crap on this discussion? You think no one heard you the last 10 times you said that? If you don't like it, why not just stay away?
 
einlanzer said:
You know, if I could put mods/admins on ignore this wouldn't be an issue. Don't YOU have anything better to do than crap on this discussion? You think no one heard you the last 10 times you said that? If you don't like it, why not just stay away?
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hey, you better watch what you say. Don't you disrespect her like that; she has as much right to say her opinion as you and YOU don't have any right to deny her that.

Everything you've said so far is just as 'worthless' as anything she has said, according to your obtuse observation. All of your posts here repeat the same darn thing, over and over and over, as if there weren't enough room in that skull of yours to comprehend anything else. So you have NO right to insinuate that she can't say anything simply because she's reinforcing her point. You have a problem with it, and you'll find a heck of a lot more on your hands then you bargained for. Trust me.

Leave her alone. And you dam well better show more respect to a moderator.
 
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einlanzer said:
You know, if I could put mods/admins on ignore this wouldn't be an issue. Don't YOU have anything better to do than crap on this discussion? You think no one heard you the last 10 times you said that? If you don't like it, why not just stay away?
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Kindly do NOT tell a Global Moderator what to do, and drop the condescending attitude. If any more posts appear that are off topic they will be deleted as spam and this thread will be closed.

Thank you Dragon Mage for pointing this out to me ^_^
 
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