Abortion - your views.

[Ness]

I think that people need to remember one thing: this isn't a black-and-white issue.

It's easy to be dogmatic about an issue such as abortion, especially if you've never been involved in a situation that calls for such a difficult decision. A lot of certain people's views on abortion as social policy come down to this, at the very core:

"Since I don't agree with it, no one should be able to do it!"

This is absurd.

It's okay for people to disagree PERSONALLY with the practice of abortion. If you say that you wouldn't ever get one, fine. As far as I'm concerned, though, I wouldn't even make a statement like that. I'm not qualified, because I'll never be in a situation like that, because I'm not a woman. I don't know how I would act if it was actually my decision to make...especially if I was alone and scared. It's incredibly presumptuous to not only assume that the way you would make the decision is always right, but to require that everyone follows your moral compass.

Furthermore, I think that people who support "situational abortion" are being somewhat inconsistent. There shouldn't be a set of rules to determine whether or not it's acceptable for another person to make a particular choice. No adult should have the right to make another adult's decisions for them, whether they agree or not. Whether anyone finds abortion personally wrong is irrelevant to the issue of choice: let the person actually CHOOSING sort out their own morality.

 

[Seed]

But that 'baby' wasn't aware it was alive in the first place, the person being shot in the head would have.

So you agree that it is alive? Even if it isn't aware of it yet?
That's why it's murder. It's ALIVE, and no matter what stage it's at it is human.

Do they have artificial wombs? That they can put unborn babies in? I would agree with that if a woman did not want to carry it. Not just killing it though.

 

[Bambi]

So you agree that it is alive? Even if it isn't aware of it yet?
That's why it's murder. It's ALIVE, and no matter what stage it's at it is human.

Do they have artificial wombs? That they can put unborn babies in? I would agree with that if a woman did not want to carry it. Not just killing it though.

Im clearly going to hell for every spider or fly or insect ive ever gassed/Squshed/trod on then

No I dont agree it was 'alive'in the sense you are talking, it cant survive without the mother, its basically a parasite living off the host. Take away the mother it can't survive. Sure you can say that about babies, but imo, it's not the same thing ANYONE could keep that baby alive ONCE IT'S BORN. Whilst being in the womb there is oly ONE thing keeping that embryo/fetus alive, and thats the mother. And it is her HUMAN RIGHT to decide whether she want's to carry on with that pregnancy or not, no one elses

 

[Seed]

I don't have a problem killing animals, they are not human.

It is obvious I'm not going to change anyone's mind,
and nobody is going to change mine, so I'm finished in this thread.

 

[Ness]

So you agree that it is alive? Even if it isn't aware of it yet?
That's why it's murder. It's ALIVE, and no matter what stage it's at it is human.

Would you argue that an egg is just as much of a chicken as a real chicken? Make sure the next time you post that you actually address this question, I'm curious as to how you answer it.

Do they have artificial wombs? That they can put unborn babies in? I would agree with that if a woman did not want to carry it. Not just killing it though.

What does this have to do with anything? How does the (odd) idea of artificial wombs factor into this discussion?

It is obvious I'm not going to change anyone's mind,
and nobody is going to change mine, so I'm finished in this thread.

Well, that's a very mature way to handle a debate. You can't get upset if you come to debate and no one is convinced of your position, especially if the "evidence" you've offered is somewhat...lacking.

 

[Bambi]

I don't have a problem killing animals, they are not human.

No, but they are still ALIVE aren't they, just like a growing fetus/embryo isnt human, aye?

 

[Seed]

Ok last post,
Albedo, I would say it was a chicken.
As for the artificial womb thing, I was saying I would agree with alternate ways for
the woman to not have to carry the baby if they didn't want to.
Also, I'm not upset at all, I'm tired of this topic, and wasting my time here.

Auron, I don't get your point.
It's an animal, killing it is not murder, no matter what stage.
Killing an unborn human is still killing a human.
If it is indeed considered "human".
Imo it is...in your opinion it isn't.

None of anyone's views have tarnished my view of them,
hopefully the same goes for the way you view me, and treat me around the forum.
I don't want to talk about the same thing forever,
I've posted here a few times now I'm done.
You've heard my opinion and I have heard yours.

Btw...the reason I was letting you know that I'm done
is so that everyone knows I won't respond to them, and that I'm not just
ignoring them.

 

[Caedus]

I'll state my opinions, but I'm not in this to persuade anyone to come to the dark side or the light side. It doesn't matter either way.
If you're raped and have a baby you can't take care of or don't want, adopt it out; don't kill it. It may never know you and you may never know him/her, but at least they'll have a chance at the life they've been given, regardless of the voluntary or involuntary method. Sex creates life, and so unfortunately can rape. Would you believe your decision to destroy life is justified by a such an act of perversion? If you can't take care of it, adopt it out.

As for pages 1-28, I'll keep my thoughts about those replies to myself.

 

[Bambi]

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, just like they are entitled to their own CHOICE, but I feel that is where pro CHOICERS differ from pro LIFERS. Pro lifers dont seem to want to budge from the IT R MURDER theory, pro CHOICERS can at least admit, the circumstances of abortion aren't always r ight or what ever, but at the end of the day, whose right is it to j udge? It's the womans body at the end of the day

 

[Ness]

Ok last post,
Albedo, I would say it was a chicken.

I don't agree, but I'll give you points for consistency, if nothing else.

As for the artificial womb thing, I was saying I would agree with alternate ways for the woman to not have to carry the baby if they didn't want to.

I see, but unfortunately, these ways are not available to us...hence this whole debate in the first place. If there was a way to safely remove a fetus from a woman and allow it to grow somewhere else, I'll bet this whole debate would become moot.

Auron, I don't get your point.
It's an animal, killing it is not murder, no matter what stage.
Killing an unborn human is still killing a human.
If it is indeed considered "human".
Imo it is...in your opinion it isn't.

At least you recognize that she is entitled to her opinion on the matter, that's the point that most people are trying to make. Each woman should have the right to choose for herself what is right and wrong in this regard. Just because they choose differently from how you think that you would choose doesn't mean that they should be condemned.

 

[Bambi]

If you're raped and have a baby you can't take care of or don't want, adopt it out; don't kill it. It may never know you and you may never know him/her, but at least they'll have a chance at the life they've been given, regardless of the voluntary or involuntary method. Sex creates life, and so unfortunately can rape. Would you believe your decision to destroy life is justified by a such an act of perversion? If you can't take care of it, adopt it out.

Been pregnant/given birth before have we? You have NO idea what its like. Imagine getting raped; not ONLY do you have the mental anguish, which believe me, takes some getting over, you have the PHYSICAL side too AND the fact that everyone knows you are pregnant. You would have to be some strong person to get through that, and being a dude, you would not have ANY idea what pregnancy is like, I HATED being pregnant, I narrowly escaped having to have a blood transfusion and I had it EASY, never mind giving birth on top of that which is the most painful thing i have EVER experienced in my LIFE

 

[King Sean]

My view on this deplorable act are simple. NO. i do not support such a horrible act and never shall. Woman use rape as a justification to throw away a life. if you know this happened, shouldn't you A:Look deep in your heart to make sure the child has the best life possible or B:Give it up for adoption. Some where, there are people that want the child you want to kill. how dare you kill that child before it can even take its first breath. just because people are young or havent been through the trauma you have, does not mean their views dont count. we are all human, cant we act that way. how would you feel if your mom or dad decided that he/she had too much children so they decided to throw YOU away, huh. oh yeah, thats right, you would not feel anything because you dont exist. Arguing about something that future generations will just abolish seems futile and we should be putting our time into much more worthy talks. Debating over human lives is for those who have no life of their own. All these excuses are just ways to justify an act that should be punished by imprisonment. it is not just your body once you get pregnant, that body is now shared by two beings. kill the child, might as well kill yourself too..... this act not only kills one innocent life, but lowers the human population potential rising. you are just helping kill the human race, just like a disease

 

[Daenerys]

I believe that, since this seems to be the way the topic is going, that men ARE allowed an opinion on abortion, because yes, it does take two to tango and they deserve to be consulted.

However, I firmly believe that the final decision is solely the woman's. It is her who will be carrying the baby, as well as giving birth to it, especially since birth can be a traumatic and painful experience, for example, my own mother lost half the blood in her body giving birth to me - complications and whatnot. The point I am trying to make here, is that it is the woman who faces these risks and consequences, not the man, so therefore, it is up to the woman to decide.

Men may have an opinion on abortion, but in my opinion, they shouldn't try and force that opinion onto a woman. Nor should anyone be shamed into thinking having an abortion is "wrong" or "murder" I know people who've had abortions - and it's helped them more than having the baby would, sometimes you have to make harsh decisions to do the right thing to yourself.

 

[Saga]

My view on this deplorable act are simple. NO. i do not support such a horrible act and never shall. Woman use rape as a justification to throw away a life. if you know this happened, shouldn't you A:Look deep in your heart to make sure the child has the best life possible or B:Give it up for adoption. Some where, there are people that want the child you want to kill. how dare you kill that child before it can even take its first breath. just because people are young or havent been through the trauma you have, does not mean their views dont count. we are all human, cant we act that way. how would you feel if your mom or dad decided that he/she had too much children so they decided to throw YOU away, huh. oh yeah, thats right, you would not feel anything because you dont exist. Arguing about something that future generations will just abolish seems futile and we should be putting our time into much more worthy talks. Debating over human lives is for those who have no life of their own. All these excuses are just ways to justify an act that should be punished by imprisonment. it is not just your body once you get pregnant, that body is now shared by two beings. kill the child, might as well kill yourself too..... this act not only kills one innocent life, but lowers the human population potential rising. you are just helping kill the human race, just like a disease

YOU be a woman. Get raped. Fall pregnant AND THEN tell me you would keep the child if you were the same age I was.

My mother very nearly aborted me. So don't start that shit.

Some women do it for selfish reasons, but do NOT tar us ALL with the same brush.

I don't regret having my abortion. Yet I do still think about the fact I could have a child, two infact (not getting into that here). Not a day goes by when I don't think "What if" but then I remember I was a CHILD. And I again think "I don't regret it".

If I had been older, it would have been an entirely different matter.

also, stop talking as though Abortion is an easy way out for a woman who doesn't want a child. It's a painful process,physically, mentally AND emotionally. I've still not recovered from that experience, but I know deep down it was the best decision I could have made overall.

Edit: And don't you DARE speak that way. Commanding us to do what YOU believe is right. We are not your playthings to do as you tell us too. We are humans as well, with the
F R E E D O M O F C H O I C E

 

[Bambi]

My view on this deplorable act are simple. NO. i do not support such a horrible act and never shall. Woman use rape as a justification to throw away a life. if you know this happened, shouldn't you A:Look deep in your heart to make sure the child has the best life possible or B:Give it up for adoption. Some where, there are people that want the child you want to kill. how dare you kill that child before it can even take its first breath. just because people are young or havent been through the trauma you have, does not mean their views dont count. we are all human, cant we act that way. how would you feel if your mom or dad decided that he/she had too much children so they decided to throw YOU away, huh. oh yeah, thats right, you would not feel anything because you dont exist. Arguing about something that future generations will just abolish seems futile and we should be putting our time into much more worthy talks. Debating over human lives is for those who have no life of their own. All these excuses are just ways to justify an act that should be punished by imprisonment. it is not just your body once you get pregnant, that body is now shared by two beings. kill the child, might as well kill yourself too..... this act not only kills one innocent life, but lowers the human population potential rising. you are just helping kill the human race, just like a disease

Been raped before have we? Know how TRAUMATISING that is do we? Do you have ANY idea the affect rape LEAVES on a woman? You are calling rape an EXCUSE? That is so beyond laughable, come back when you have been raped and have been left pregnant, lets see how you feel then. You have NO idea how TRAUMATISING rape is for a woman do you? You paint it so black and white its shocking

You are forgetting that this 'life ' you speak of is nothing but a few dividing cells, much like the living cells we shed on a daily basis

A pregnancy has been likened to a parasite draining the nutrients of the host, which as a PERSON WHO HAS BEEN PREGNANT (shock horror) is inclined to agree with. Thinned hair. CHECK. Receding gum line. CHECK. ANEMIA. CHECK etc etc

Its easy for men to judge when they never have to go through it. Yeah, Id not change my daughter for the earth, but id never go through pregnancy again either

If a woman has been raped and ends up pregnant then without a doubt that woman should have the right to terminate. She didn't ASK to fall fall pregnant. Id ask all you pro lifers to put yourselves through these scenarios before judging, but oh wait, you can't, most of you are men, what a shocker

 

[The Illusive Man]

My view on this deplorable act are simple. NO. i do not support such a horrible act and never shall. Woman use rape as a justification to throw away a life. if you know this happened, shouldn't you A:Look deep in your heart to make sure the child has the best life possible or B:Give it up for adoption. Some where, there are people that want the child you want to kill.

how dare you kill that child before it can even take its first breath. just because people are young or havent been through the trauma you have, does not mean their views dont count.

we are all human, cant we act that way. how would you feel if your mom or dad decided that he/she had too much children so they decided to throw YOU away, huh. oh yeah, thats right, you would not feel anything because you dont exist. Arguing about something that future generations will just abolish seems futile and we should be putting our time into much more worthy talks. Debating over human lives is for those who have no life of their own. All these excuses are just ways to justify an act that should be punished by imprisonment. it is not just your body once you get pregnant, that body is now shared by two beings.

kill the child, might as well kill yourself too..... this act not only kills one innocent life, but lowers the human population potential rising. you are just helping kill the human race, just like a disease

For a starters this seems to be a narrow minded and brain washed view of someone who has attended a religious school and is possibly from a highly relgious family.

The values of which you preach are values that to be quite honest, are extremely outdated and have been for over 2 centuries, such as the Christian Value of "No contraception" claiming it to be extremely un-natural and to use it "A crime against god".

I can speak from this point of view because I AM a Roman Catholic, I have seen the views of the church and the teachings of the church leaders, and the fact they are still trying to instill bygone and outdated teachings into a extremely modernised culture, Heck they even still preach about the whole "sex before marriage thing" and that is down to a very fine minority as scientific and intellectual persuits work to disprove the churches way of life is not neccessarly the only path in life.

The biggest problem that has been forever a hurdle to human-kinds growth has always been the fear of that what we do not understand, The church are stubborn and in many respects STILL do not understand many things about modern society, and its a large portion as to why religion in the modern world is a fading ideal of times past.

Funnily enough, the debate of Abortion was discussed in my old highschool (I went to a catholic highschool) in which the Bishop of York came to visit the school and spoke frankly on his views of abortion. Suprisingly, the Bishop was "Pro-Choice" believing that in circumstantial situations, Abortion was fine and not a crime against humanity.

In many regards the Church of England has grown to accept "Pro Choice Circumstantial Abortion" and will advice it in council to victims of rape that may have fell pregnant, although there will always be Left Wingers that will always be "Pro Life", The Modern Church itself has at least begun to understand, adapt and accept the way of the Modern World.

As for your comment on "Killing the human race"......

You do realise the human race is actually WELL ABOVE the recommended population caps in most countries right, and in some countries its gotten so bad they have to enforce a "X amount of Children per family" law?

But I've spoke my piece, and you have spoken yours, everyone is entitled to an opinion, that is the greatness of the freedom of speech, however to force an opinion on others (as you have been) is nothing short of the same values as a dictatorship, so be mindful of your debating choices and comments!

 

[Fusilli]

My view on this deplorable act are simple. NO. i do not support such a horrible act and never shall. Woman use rape as a justification to throw away a life. if you know this happened, shouldn't you A:Look deep in your heart to make sure the child has the best life possible or B:Give it up for adoption. Some where, there are people that want the child you want to kill. how dare you kill that child before it can even take its first breath. just because people are young or havent been through the trauma you have, does not mean their views dont count. we are all human, cant we act that way. how would you feel if your mom or dad decided that he/she had too much children so they decided to throw YOU away, huh. oh yeah, thats right, you would not feel anything because you dont exist. Arguing about something that future generations will just abolish seems futile and we should be putting our time into much more worthy talks. Debating over human lives is for those who have no life of their own. All these excuses are just ways to justify an act that should be punished by imprisonment. it is not just your body once you get pregnant, that body is now shared by two beings. kill the child, might as well kill yourself too..... this act not only kills one innocent life, but lowers the human population potential rising. you are just helping kill the human race, just like a disease

I'm not going to spend too much time on this because I feel it's quite pointless, we all have our own opinions etc, and I have stated mine a few pages ago... But I'd just like to point out that an increase in human population is NOT A GOOD THING. Haven't you ever heard of things like overpopulation or finite resources? And the global human population is on the increase anyway regardless of abortion.


Also...

how would you feel if your mom or dad decided that he/she had too much children so they decided to throw YOU away, huh. oh yeah, thats right, you would not feel anything because you dont exist.

You kind of just contradicted yourself. And you're right, you wouldn't feel anything because you don't have a life yet.

 

[King Sean]

WHY CANT YOU JUST LEAVE ME ALONE. WTF ATTACKING ME SOLELY FOR 4 POSTS STRAIGHT!!!. I stated my opinion. srry if i seemed to be pushing my ideals on you, but i am done. continue with yourselves and just leave me alone, damn!!

 

[Bambi]

WHY CANT YOU JUST LEAVE ME ALONE. WTF ATTACKING ME SOLELY FOR 4 POSTS STRAIGHT!!!. I stated my opinion. srry if i seemed to be pushing my ideals on you, but i am done. continue with yourselves and just leave me alone, damn!!

its a powerfu l subject, we are not '' attacking'' you merely debating your opinons

 

[Dolores Haze]

WHY CANT YOU JUST LEAVE ME ALONE. WTF ATTACKING ME SOLELY FOR 4 POSTS STRAIGHT!!!. I stated my opinion. srry if i seemed to be pushing my ideals on you, but i am done. continue with yourselves and just leave me alone, damn!!

When you post in a discussion thread, expect to have your views discussed. If you can't handle that, don't post such an over-assuming post with no justifications or examples.

I'm not going to post much here, or break down someone else's opinions. I'm just going to say that I am for women choosing what they want to do. The man shouldn't force her to do what he wants, saying it's 'his child too'. It's a massive experience for her - oh, you jack off and nine months later you have to take care of something (if you haven't taken care of the mother anyway). She has to go through a lot more.

I know my mother had no doubts about having me, she and Dad were happy together and about to get married, and she prayed for a little girl and she got one; she never regretted it. I've done everything I can to not be a burden to her and to be helpful since Dad left.

Basically, children can be amazing things if you're ready for it. In Vikki's case, she probably couldn't have raised that child in the happiest environment it might deserve (no offense, Viks.). Let the mother decide whether she wants to raise it right.

Also, saying 'you'll never know what the child could have been like', exactly. A child raised in an abusive environment with a depressed mother might grow up to be an abusive person also, or cause someone's suicide/breakdown (a bit of an exaggeration, I know, but I know exactly who caused my breakdown, but I don't wish they were never born.). You just don't know.

And feel free to say everything I've said is wrong because I'm tbh too young to fully understand this topic. I've read through others' replies and drawn my own conclusion from it.
Instead of wailing on women for 'killing' their unborn child, go start a massive flame topic over Hiroshima or something that actually killed living people. At least that would have some kind of purpose