Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII

[Shaissa]

I will take this in three steps... first step (VII) then second step (Crisis Core) then third step (Advent Children)

In the actual game, (Final Fantasy VII), it comes down to choices. A lot of the choices come down to the dating sequence, you cancel all those down you have a couple major scenes. 2 for Tifa X Cloud, and two for Aerith x Cloud.

The two for Aerith...The first one is when Aerith dies... Cloud is heartbroken obviously, but this also is going be mixed into with guilt of A. almost killing her himself, and not preventing the death when he knew Sephiroth was after her. The second major scene that comes is after Cloud is finally comes out of his... Mako/Coma state, and they are all on the airship. This is emotional, yet this seems like more guilt added up in the end. Some would argue where they were alone on the playground, or when Cloud offered to be her body guard for a date, but they physically just met... so this could be this "crush" or "love at first sight" depending on how you look at it.

For Cloud and Tifa in FFVII. One Major scene was they showed what happen when they were younger... the promise at the well. Cloud promised to always be there for her, and yes Cloud was in love with her. He was 13/14? I wanna guess at least, so you can argue the "this was young/first love" scene. Yet when he tried to get into soldier, he was so embarrassed that he couldn't get in that he didn't want to see her. Yet in the end at the Mako Reactor in Nieblhiem, he was there for her in the end. Then the other scene was near the end of the game where they were together under the Highwind before the final fight with Sephiroth. They spent the whole night together.


I will add more with the Crisis Core and Advent Children later.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

i notice you don't have cloud x barret there. actually the evidence is incredibly strong for this pairing.

barret is emotionally immature and so behaves in a way similar to that of a school boy who likes a girl - or a little, blond boy in barret's case. he bullies cloud and generally acts as though he has no time for him. and yet when the chance of a date with dreamy cloud comes up, he takes it faster than an ethiopian would take a tin of beans. as the japanese are quite obsessed with sexualitay, and in particular, homosexualitay it makes sense that they would try to subtly add this into a childrens' game to introduce them to the concept of homosexualitay and uniform fetishes. also in an attempt to stamp out racism early they made the relationship an interracial one. the relationship is not so clear in advent children and isn't explored at all in crisis core as barret and cloud have not met by then.

 

[C i d]

Please stay on-topic. This is a thread discussing about Cloud, Tifa and Aerith, not Barret.
And I don't think I need to reiterate this again as many mods have done so. Please stay civil.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

Please stay on-topic. This is a thread discussing about Cloud, Tifa and Aerith, not Barret.

actually as you can see from this quote

So this is a Love Triangle thread for Cloud Strife and the two women in love with him Aerith and Tifa.

Callisto states it is about cloud, aerith and tifa but then went on to add zack to the poll. i don't think it is unreasonable that we should discuss other legitimate love interests of cloud. i gave legitimate evidence for my claim.

 

[C i d]

Neither it is reasonable to respond to my post arguing about off-topic posts, as it in itself is off-topic. The thread creator may have made a mistake by adding Zack in the poll. However, I am just following the rules that she set initially. i.e. Cloud, Tifa and Aerith discussion. I would advice you to seek permission from the thread creator whether it is now fine to discuss about Barret and Cloud (do so via PMs).

Please PM me for further concerns. Anymore off-topic replies will be ignored and deleted.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Your argument is all opinion, you provide no proof.
"cloud slept with the girl he wanted all along."
I take it you are talking about when they live together?
Weeelll... They had separate rooms, they never slept together...
By the way, if you are getting so passionate that you're getting upset, you need to take the back seat.
Bashing people and their pairing is not wanted in a debate. Be calm headed and act like an adult.
Provide proof of your pairing or leave the debate to others who do have links and sources.
:3

what cool logic. "they didnt have sex because they dont sleep in the same bed!" that subject alone is stretched so far its not even significant to note. do you really want to point that out when NOBODY knows where they sleep? the bed doenst prove a thing. where can you deny cloud and tifa had sex in the highwind? nojima planned it and agreed with it. IT WAS JUST TONED DOWN. thats it. id love to see what you scrape up to deny this. whether you like it or not they are living as a family and they like it fairly well.

 

[Ilyena]

Can it not also be argued that since it is never seen onscreen that you can't say for certain that it did happen?

Same with the sleeping arrangements in AC. You don't not see them sleeping together but you also don't see them sleeping together so it can really be argued either way. I don't really care about either pairing. Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[Shaissa]

Can it not also be argued that since it is never seen onscreen that you can't say for certain that it did happen?

Same with the sleeping arrangements in AC. You don't not see them sleeping together but you also don't see them sleeping together so it can really be argued either way. I don't really care about either pairing. Just playing devil's advocate here.

You wanted a hentai scene in FFVII didn't you?

But this is correct with both actually.

Also the FFVII scene can actually be altered a little with what Tifa says if during disk one with all the questions you acutally bring her "points" down enough...

There isn't much difference between the two, just how Tifa will react and what she says.
One "implies" (using this word strongly because again not on scene so you can't say 100% for certain) That they might of made love. The other one just makes it sound like they held each other or just talked the whole time.

Also in AC I think by the time of the movie Cloud was just staying inside the Church the whole time and very rarely going back to 7th Heaven Bar. At least that is the impression I got.

Also with AC talk, the CloudXAerith fans use this as support, when I just feel like it was more guilt that Cloud was trying to kill her (under Sephiroth's control of course, but still did try) and he failed to protect her, same way he could never protect Tifa when she was in the reactor back in Neiblhiem with Sephiroth.

So you could say at this point he felt 100% useless, and with not being able to find a cure for Denzel and having the Geostigma disease himself, he might of just 100% gave up and felt terrible about everything.

So would he really be trying to make a relationship work with anyone during Advent Children with all this guilt surrounding him?

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

once again, give me anything cloud says outside of zloud taking romanic moves to aerith. otherwise....this is just another proof of the red herring. doesnt signify much.S/E doesn't say aerith is clouds lover. the uncanon book does. everything is else is zloud.
@I'm Blue
no, they didnt talk. that was the big thing that made you think "ohhhh...cloud wants to 'TALK' to her." it was explicitly said by tifa and S/E theirselves.

Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.

then it shows the picture of them sleeping.
this is most likely the same as laying down next to each other asleep in '97. remember they needed it toned down but just enough for you to understand.
@yuna
it was HEAVILY implied that they did. not expressing words suggested by tifa AND S\E theirselves, the night comes coincidentally, tifa giving him a striking smile, both of them acting nervous the next day, getting teased, cid asking "So Cloud's with Tifa?" without barret saying one word about it when the last time he saw the two together was under his ship that night, them starting a family afterwards, yuffie asking "you sick?", S/E saying they toned it down - not deleting it. and like S/E said, if there wasnt a girl that loved cloud other than tifa, dont deny it. wouldnt you instantly know what went down under the plane? i dont know why people are stretching it. its very obvious. so yea, if there wasnt any sex (and that is highly doubtful) there was DEFINITELY some serious making out.something romantic happened. and they made it that way because they wanted to. thats what we are supposed to come away with. or else why would nojima say "we should have went with the original idea" and laugh?

also, FFVIIUO, pg. 39)

Yuffie is unaware that Cloud and Tifa had just spent the night together. Woman's intuition is as perceptive as ever, no?

we wouldnt need to "see " it because there is proof enough. anyway who would except for hentai lovers? i wouldnt. ill admit they did and all but....no.

@Callisto

do you think you could give me the link to the "fleeting love" stuff? could you give me the link to it please? also even if nomura DID say this, the quote says it was only fleeting and immature. the word "dim" isnt used at all. and for good reason. dont be in such a hurry to put words in his mouth ok? so even if it did "end" cloud was still obsessed with her no matter how you look at it.

and like i noted, cloud told tifa thats nothings changed and he would keep the promise under the highwind. this is after he fulfilled it more than she asked him to. why would he say such a thing if his love ended? if NOTHING'S changed? he had fulfilled it already. he could let go of it by now. if his love ended, why was he stuttering like a broken car engine to tell her he loved her? why did he spend two years in torture just for her and was willing to spend more? 2 years can hardly be counted as a short amount of time. it IS a short amount of time he meets aerith and she dies though. apparently not even 8 months has passed. but then again the time in ffvii is confusing. the best we know is that not even a year is passed when the whole thing happens. thats not even half the time cloud spent in shin-ra. how in the world could have have fallen in love with her FASTER than he did with tifa? and at that how could he have been real cloud? thats why i need that link you got it from. it just doesnt make sense of things.

also i love how you say "nojima says" and "nomura says" with absolutely NO QUOTES to back it up. WHERE does it say he doesnt know the relationship of cloud and tifa? and at that where does it say he knows the relationship of cloud and AERITH? if TIFA cant move in on cloud and shes ALIVE, aerith sure as balls wont do it. where the heck does it say that cloud is her lover?!?!?! where? what quote,interview, website etc said this? other wise please cease speaking it.

and nomura DOES know the relationship of cloud and tifa. now he does.

Given that this comment was made around the time of Advent Children’s release and after the publication of On the Way to a Smile: Case of Tifa, if Nomura had no clue even then whether there was a relationship between Cloud and Tifa — neither an affirmative, nor a negative — and, indeed, didn’t even care who loved who, that would seem to indicate that he also had no clue whether Cloud was in love with Tifa or Aerith.

In other words, that would seem to mean that there’s no pairing to bedetermined as far as he’s concerned or even aware.

This statement, however, doesn’t preclude the other key developers of the Compilation of FFVII — such as Nojima, who made the comments cited at the beginning of this article — from having an opinion on it and an intention with the story.

http://thelifestream.net/lifestream...le-of-ffvii-an-analysis-by-squall_of_seed/3/l

and why would cloud do this?

“I’m sorry, I’m really sorry.”She felt Cloud’s hand on her shoulder. He was holding onto her firmly as if he didn’t want her to go anywhere. For now, I’ll just let myself cry as much as I want. I’ll leave the rest in his hands.

and why would cloud say this?

Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again. "Because I have you." “You’ve always had me.”“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

this is days after the highwind. all of a sudden cloud smiles and says "Because I have you this time" for no reason? because "nothing romantic/sexual happened"? it obviously doesnt mean friendship because tifa nervously/shyly suggested he meant friendship. cloud replied "uh......tifa? remember the night before we all fought? because i do. and i wont forget it either." then smiled, sure tifa knew what he meant. if nothing happened under the highwind why was he taking a long time to say "Because I have you"? if he meant it in friendship he most likely wouldnt have taken long like that. i mean come on you wont even admit they did some serious kissing? thats straight denial.

and nice try, the low affection version isnt canon.

Of possibly greater significance to this matter than the CC Ultimania’s statement, however, is pg. 232 of the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 2: Scenario, which summarizes the stories of each Final Fantasy. There, under a heading that reads “The time of the last two before the final battle with Sephiroth,” is the script of the high affection version of the scene, along with two screenshots — one of Tifa saying the risque line from the high affection version, and the other of Cloud and Tifa sleeping against each other....

...................

The low affection version of the scene, meanwhile, isn’t spoken of at all — even while all four versions of the Gold Saucer date receive mention (pg. 225):

All this, then, makes how that scene played out rather undebatable as well.

(http://thelifestream.net/lifestream-...all_of_seed/3/)

so the low affection bull is happily thrown out the window.

and if you deny this, so you think that, besides of the hardcore proof of "for the one i love" that said they made mutual feeling WITHOUT WORDS (http://thelifestream.net/lifestream-...he-one-i-love/), you think they desired each other's - let me get the straight - FRIENDSHIP? ohhhh..it totally makes sense now!

the reason why cloud acted "sick" to yuffie was because of FRIENDSHIP!

the reason why tifa said the risque line was because of FRIENDSHIP!

the reason why cid asks "So Cloud's with Tifa?" is because he thought they spent FRIENDSHIP time under the highwind and he saw them!
the reason why tifa and cloud get teased is because of FRIENDSHIP!

......whut?

why in the name of holy cows would they desire each other's if they were going to fight the next day? they were going to have it whether they liked it or not.

also look at this:VII – Secret date

At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of his companions. Who comes around with the invitation is dependent on Cloud’s behavior.

oh and what to ya know! it shows aerith's date, proving that her (as well as everyones) date is game mechanic wise and not according to the plot. also the word "companions" is already used, so cloud had it already had his "companionship" long ago.

tifa and cloud were also childhood friends. they had friendship too, so why would they desire that?

and if they "desired friendship",for how many hours into the night? alright, you suggested it. so what the heck would they do to desire each other's "companionship" without words? play chess? eat popcorn? OOH! what about watching TV? if nothing - absolutely nothing - physical happened under the highwind, what would they do? there wasnt any resources around to play with, and it was the beginning of a night when the scene faded off. do you know how LONG that is for morning to come? what would they have done? im not pushing you into it like a pervert. you just refuse to admit it. it looks like you're doing it on purpose.

cloud pressed his lips to tifa's and kissed them. tifa did it back. they did it a lot more times because they WANTED to for years, then kicked it up a notch since its the last day on the planet, and cid saw them (or heard them). this is a perfectly fine result to end up with due to the fact that S/E WANTED us to. and if they had "friendship" under the highwind, why did S/E note it when talking about cloud and tifa, with the FAMILY structure they put them in?

From Cloud's profile.The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud…

he was. if you're so crazy about what what nomura says you would know that he says cloud is VERY happy with tifa and the kids. the guilt made him feel miserable.

if you admit tifa is doubting clouds love, you just contradicted yourself. why would tifa be doubting his love if they both just displayed "companionship" to one another? if it was platonic all the way through, why would tifa think once about clouds love? you just admitted they had sex indirectly.

it has been said in the quote above that cloud loves tifa and the kids. its his guilt. NOT THEM. the reason why he left was BECAUSE he couldnt help his family. and if he felt miserable because of them why did he give tifa one of his rare smiles at the end? because that was the pin point of clouds happiness. then he got infected with geostigma. do you see him acting miserable in DoC? because i dont.

tifa started doubting his love (therefore proving they slept together in the first place) because cloud suddenly acted distant. he started drinking when he wasnt a drinker. he left longer than usual. he was spending more time alone. even MARLENE complained of his absence ("Why don't you pay any attention to us?!") . cloud obviously was very loving when the family started off. then the guilt hit, and he couldnt shake it off. then he got incurable cancer. would you be feeling peachy?

i also find it funny that S/E said they needed a man for aerith to love for her reason of the love triangle but they say absolutely zilch for tifa. isnt that funny?

and still......i have yet to see real cloud love aerith. i still have all zloud quotes. >.>

so what other quotes do you have? and please provide links with each one sos thats i's cans inspects thems.

 

[GreyGardens]

I ship Cloud and Aerith because Aerith is the first person in the game Cloud cares for besides himself. In fact, Cloud cares for Aerith despite not fully being himself. This fact doesn’t diminish their relationship, but proves how strong it actually is.

Before I go on, this is an important quote:
“After developing his personality by using Zack’s memory as a base, Cloud still maintained the part of coolness even though Zack had cheerful characteristics. The part of Cloud’s coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting “no interests” all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells. They belong to the real Cloud’s personality.” ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega

So although Cloud wasn’t completely himself during disc 1, parts of the ‘real’ Cloud were present during his time with Aerith. It is also stated that the Jenova cells inside Cloud mimicked Tifa’s memories of him. Since Tifa’s memories were of the ‘real’ Cloud, Jenova’s cells mimicked portions of the ‘real Cloud’ that fashioned yet another personality for him.

During the beginning of the game Cloud makes it very clear that he doesn’t care about the world, AVALANCHE, or anything but himself. Only with the promise of financial reward does Cloud agree to blow up the mako reactor. Then, after Cloud’s first mission with AVALANCHE, Tifa has to promise Cloud an even larger sum of money to convince him to stay.

However, with the introduction of Aerith, Cloud agrees to be her bodyguard for the mere price of a romantic date. He laughs with her. He takes her home safely, and even has a flashback in her house about having an ‘older’ girlfriend. What could possibly trigger this flashback besides romantic infatuation?

Another quote I’d like to draw attention to is this one:

"At the start of FFVII Cloud posed as a “cool ex-SOLDIER”, and kept up a cocky front. After it is revealed that he was never in SOLDIER, and he begins to act like himself, but he still doesn’t show his emotions very much. The only time he laughs in FFVII is during a conversation with Aerith at the start of the story, when Jenova is still in control of his consciousness.” ~Final Fantsay VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania

This is significant. Aerith was able to evoke laugher from Cloud despite Jenova’s control over his consciousness. It doesn’t make sense that Jenova would make Cloud flirt and laugh with Aerith, and we’ve already established that parts of the ‘real’ Cloud were there during his interaction with Aerith. Therefore, it is very significant that Aerith was the only character that was able to evoke laugher from Cloud. And it’s even more impressive that she was able to do it while Jenova was in control of his consciousness.

Aerith brought out something in Cloud that no one else was able to do. Tifa wasn’t even able to make Cloud laugh when Jenova WASN’T in control of his consciousness. The fact that Aerith was able to make Cloud laugh when Jenova WAS in control of Cloud’s consciousness tells us Aerith could do what no one else could — bring laughter, happiness, and joy to a man who was profoundly messed up.

The emotional connection between them began during their initial encounter when Cloud thought Aerith’s eyes were, "impressive" (1) and that her smile was a, "good purchase" (1). Cloud left this initial encounter with a, "mysterious" feeling (2), a feeling that I believe was love at first sight.

In fact, after all that unfolded during their first two encounters, Cloud tells Marlene that he “hopes” Aerith likes him.

Then, Barret observes how when Cloud wants to save Aerith from the Shinra headquarters, it was the first time he had ever seen Cloud care for someone besides himself (3).

Then, Cloud and Aerith flirt with each other in the Shinra jail cells. This leads to Tifa letting her, "peevish feelings slip" (4) when she witnesses the "world" (4) and “special bond” (5) Cloud and Aerith were forming together that was "different" (5) than the bond she had with Cloud.

Both Barret and Tifa see what should be obvious: Cloud. Likes. Aerith. He likes her a lot. He likes her so much he is willing to risk his life and save her from the Shinra headquarters after only knowing her for a short while (6). Aerith is the first person Cloud cares for besides himself.

In other words, if what we witnessed with our own eyes wasn’t enough, Squaresoft reinforces the obvious romantic attraction between Cloud and Aerith by telling us Tifa let her, "peevish feelings slip" (4) when she observed Cloud and Aerith’s "special bond" (5), and when they had Barret say Aerith was the first person he ever saw Cloud care for besides himself (3).

In a way, Barret’s observation is a clear indication to the gamer that Aerith must be someone very special and important to Cloud because despite how messed up he is, he truly cares for Aerith.

Eventually, Cloud tells Aerith he is there for her in Cosmo Canyon, and a date is shared between them in Golden Saucer. Cloud and Aerith’s time together during disc 1 is a very typical way in which romantic relationships begin — initial attraction based on physical features (check), thinking about relationships/talking about them (check), telling others you like them (check), flirting/spending alone time together/getting to know each other (check), outsiders observing/commenting on the mutual attraction (check), expressing that you are there for the other person (check), going on a date (check).

Then, when Aerith dies, you see Cloud breakdown, cry, and express more emotion than he has all game. Cloud expresses more emotion than any other character when Aerith dies. If his reaction and guilt about Aerith’s death does not prove he truly cares for and loves Aerith (despite not being his complete self when they interacted) I don’t know what does.

Even after Cloud realizes his past and fully becomes himself, he still carries grief, guilt, and sorrow over Aerith’s death. Therefore, if their relationship is somehow null-in-void because Cloud wasn’t completely himself during the time they spent together, why does Cloud (after becoming his complete self) harbor such emotion towards Aerith based on the time they shared while he was ‘messed up’? If Cloud continues to feel strong emotions towards Aerith after fully becoming himself, it means the time they spent together while he was ‘messed up’ is relevant and meaningful to the ‘real’ Cloud.

Aerith was the primary character that was able to bring out the caring side of the ‘real’ Cloud, despite how messed up he was. In other words, Aerith was able to bring the ‘real’ Cloud to the surface and have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through during a time when the ‘real’ Cloud was buried beneath Jenova’s cells and Zack’s memories.

It is silly and downright ridiculous to say that because Cloud wasn’t fully himself during most of his interaction with Aerith that their relationship is somehow insignificant or ‘lesser’. I believe that Cloud not being his complete self makes the case for Cloud x Aerith stronger. It proves that Aerith was the only character that was able to have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through and show us that Cloud not only cares for other people, but that he can, yes, even laugh.

"…there seems to be something between them”. ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix

____________________________________
1: “She’s a girl with impressive eyes. She’s around my age, or elder by one or two years. But the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger.
Aerith: “Excuse me, what happened?”
She asked me the question, and then I bought a flower from her, which is rare in Midgar.
Maybe she’s pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase.” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled ____________________________________
2: “After the explosion of First Reactor, Cloud met Aerith while running away alone. Cloud left the place, remembering the mysterious feeling he had for Aerith from the small conversation. He then reunited with AVALANCHE safely, and left for their base…” ~Final Fantasy VII, Story Playback, Page 111
____________________________________
3: Cloud: I didn’t want to start a ruckus till we saved Aerith. I should have known that was impossible though…
Barret: Heh, heh, heh.
Cloud: What is it? You’re givin’ me the willies.
Barret: So there are times when even you fight for other people. I am impressed.
Cloud: Who cares if you’re impressed…?
____________________________________
4: "Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings." ~Final Fantasy 10th Anniversary Ultimania
____________________________________
5: “Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Final Fantasy 10th Anniversary Ultimania
____________________________________
6: “Cloud: And then, Aerith got kidnapped.
In exchange for Marlene’s safety, she was taken away by the Turks.
If only she was not involved in this battle between me and Shinra…..
Aerith’s mother told us that she’s a foster child. And because she’s the last survival of “the Ancents,” Shinra was after her since she was little.
So far, it seemed the Turks had never tried to forcibly take her away in violent manner. They just persistently asked for her cooperation.
But, Shinra was entirely impetuous this time.
If Shinra changed the strategy all of a sudden, then no one can guarantee her safety.
I need to get in Shinra building.
I need to rescue her……by all means!” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled

 

[Ilyena]

I think the question of "which couple is meant to be together" is a bit misleading. If the plan was for Aerith to die all along then obviously she and Cloud weren't meant to be together. Now before anyone bites my head off, I'm not arguing here that he didn't care for or love Aerith. I think his reaction to her death shows that he cared for her in some capacity (I'm not going to say he loved her romantically because I didn't see anything definitive in the game that proved this to me). Overall, Aerith seems to mainly be a catalyst character that brings about change in Cloud.

Cloud and Aerith were never officially a couple in the game and I don't think they were "meant to be together" considering her death. But I think it's clear she was an important part of his life.

That's just my two cents.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

I think the question of "which couple is meant to be together" is a bit misleading. If the plan was for Aerith to die all along then obviously she and Cloud weren't meant to be together. Now before anyone bites my head off, I'm not arguing here that he didn't care for or love Aerith. I think his reaction to her death shows that he cared for her in some capacity (I'm not going to say he loved her romantically because I didn't see anything definitive in the game that proved this to me). Overall, Aerith seems to mainly be a catalyst character that brings about change in Cloud.

Cloud and Aerith were never officially a couple in the game and I don't think they were "meant to be together" considering her death. But I think it's clear she was an important part of his life.

That's just my two cents.

i must agree there.

cloud loved aerith. he loved her A LOT. this is proven when he has a mental breakdown of her death and cant make it back to reality without tifa. that is a truly powerful relationship. but we have to remember: aerith isnt his only friend. zach is too. i know people say "Don't include Zack into the triangle!!!!!" but in order for us to understand aeriths feelings at first we HAVE to include zack. we utterly have to. not only for aerith, but for cloud.

cloud had colossal guilt for aerith. but he had it for zack also. he had the same exact feeling - nothing less or different - for both if them in AC. whats cleriths do is ban zack from any knowledge if ffvii to support clerith. and i swear - it looks utterly and absolutely like clerith (if you ignore zloud). but if you bring zack into clouds heart, you find he feels great love for him too - basically the same as aerith. if he loves aerith romantically either you are supposed to think cloud is

1. bisexual

2. gay

3. or feels for them as very dear friends

pick which one.

also i would like to note that nowhere on cloud and aeriths profile it says nowhere of romantic feeling reciprocated. what i mean is:
(for zerith)

1. aeriths profile says she was attracted greatly to zack.
2. zacks profile says he was attracted greatly to her.

3. aeriths profile says she was VERY intimate with zack.
4. zacks profile says he was VERY imitate with aerith.

5. moreover it says in zacks profile aerith is IRREPLACEABLE to him. pretty selfish for cloud to steal his best friends only true love, am i right?

(for cloti)


1. clouds profile considers tifa in his family.
2. tifa considers cloud in her family.

3. cloud had love for tifa and it was revealed in his subconscious.
4. tifa had love for cloud and it was revealed in his subconscious.

5. cloud finally showed her his feelings without words under the highwind.
6. tifa finally showed her feelings for cloud without words under the highwind.

im not making stuff up. would cleriths please take the hints already! >.< clerith isnt real! cloti and zerith is! and both are beautiful. and like you said, it was even intended since she was planned to die.

 

[The Witch]

what cool logic. "they didnt have sex because they dont sleep in the same bed!" that subject alone is stretched so far its not even significant to note. do you really want to point that out when NOBODY knows where they sleep? the bed doenst prove a thing. where can you deny cloud and tifa had sex in the highwind? nojima planned it and agreed with it. IT WAS JUST TONED DOWN. thats it. id love to see what you scrape up to deny this. whether you like it or not they are living as a family and they like it fairly well.

Yes. Case of Tifa says that Tifa and Marlene ALWAYS slept together Tifa also tells Cloud to drink in HIS OWN room when he turns her down about joining him in drinking.

Nojima did not plan and agree to that, what have you been reading? I just posted the quote that you're trying to twist so how can you be saying this?

Kitase: "The event on the airship the night before the final battle was done by Katou as well, wasn't it."
Nojima: "Oh, the bit with that risqué/suggestive dialogue? I wasn't the one who wrote that, that was Katou too."
Interviewer: “Words aren't the only way to tell someone how you feel", that line, right? That's a rather mature conversation for a FF game.
Kitase: "Although I remember we had to tone down a version that was too strong."
Nojima: "The original idea was more extreme. The plan was for Cloud to walk out of the chocobo stable in the airship, followed by Tifa leaving while she kept looking around, but Kitase rejected it. But I think perhaps no one expected that line to be so important [laughs]"

Just to clarify, SE never said that Kato wanted a chocobo stable sex scene. All SE said was that the original scene with the risque dialogue was supposed to have taken place in a chocobo stable. Some fans jump to the conclusion that SE is saying sex happened but it seems people forget that just because something is "risque"(AKA suggestive of something sexual) doesn't mean anything actually happened. For all we know, maybe SE toned down the scene by changing the setting because they didn't want people to absolutely think something did happen.


Also, notice how Nojima said the line ISN'T important. If in that scene Cloud and Tifa supposedly boinked then why are the creators so shocked when someone makes the scene out to be something important? They never thought it would be important to people because the scene isn't important, especially to the creators.

Same with the sleeping arrangements in AC. You don't not see them sleeping together but you also don't see them sleeping together so it can really be argued either way. I don't really care about either pairing. Just playing devil's advocate here.

Nope. You might not "see" it but you "read" it...

It was night, and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking alcohol even though he rarely did. He drained his glass. Tifa thought about it before going over and filling his glass.

“Shall I join you?” There was something she wanted to talk to him about.

“I want to drink alone.”

Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, “Then drink in your room.” - CASE OF TIFA

See how Tifa tells Cloud to drink in HIS room? Yeah, this proves Cloud and Tifa hav separate rooms and do not share beds.

And here's the quote that says Tifa and Marlene ALWAYS shared a bed together (in a platonic-motherly sense);

Marlene, who had always slept with Tifa, slept with her foster father Barret the night before he left. Their conversations could be heard late into the night. - CASE OF TIFA

So the creators HAVE said Cloud & Tifa do not share rooms or beds.

do you think you could give me the link to the "fleeting love" stuff? could you give me the link to it please? also even if nomura DID say this, the quote says it was only fleeting and immature.

A link? You mean a scan of the page? I can tell you that The Lifestream forums is the site that published the Japanese context but here's the Japanese text they shared;

かされた本当の願い
幼いころのクラウドは、同年代の者たちから孤立し、自分は特別だと思いこもうとする、ねくれた子どもだった。そんな彼にとって大切だったのがティファ——淡く幼い恋心が、 精神世界にて明かされる。 ( taken from the 25thAU; SCAN)

The part that says "fleeting love" is as follows:

"fleeting (awaku: 淡く)" and immature (Osanai: 幼い)"one's love (koigokoro: 恋心)"

So all together it says "fleeting and immature love".

All "koigokoro" indicates is that it shows a possessiveness, in other words; the word is there to show that it's CLOUD'S "love" that is being described as "fleeting and immature". Awaku and osanai are both adjectives describing the subject of the clause, and the subject of that clause is Cloud's "koigokoro"--or in other words the fleeting and immature "love" that HE possessed.

Both "dim" and "fleeting" imply the same thing; that whatever the feeling is it's WEAK. But since you're arguing semantics;

The promise with a childhood friend

Before leaving Nibelheim, Cloud said that “I’ll be a SOLDIER” to a village girl, Tifa, whom he dimly fell in love with, and made a promise to protect her. Such a pompous declaration turns out to be false - considering this, Cloud conceals his identity and coldly sweats under his helmet when he confronts his hometown.

(Text near the image)
Before the reactor, Cloud conceals his identity and tries to protect Tifa.

There you go. The Crisis Core ultimania says Cloud DIMLY fell in love with Tifa. Now I've provided two quotes that prove Cloud's crush was "DIM" / "FLEETING" / & "IMMATURE".

Like I said before, it turns out Cloud's "crush" wasn't as "obsessive" or "great" as you claim it was.

the word "dim" isnt used at all. and for good reason.

So now that you've already admitted that if "dim" was used it would prove his crush wasn't important or everlasting true love you can now agree that Cloud's crush wasn't some obsessive thing that you've been making it out to be.

dont be in such a hurry to put words in his mouth ok? so even if it did "end" cloud was still obsessed with her no matter how you look at it.

I cannot believe how incredibly rude you're still being. As you can see, I didn't put any words in anyone's mouth. And no, he was not obsessed with her, his crush was to the same extent as the rest of the boys in their hometown (which I've already provided the quote of). If Cloud's "crush" ended that means future "love" can't exist.

and like i noted, cloud told tifa thats nothings changed and he would keep the promise under the highwind. this is after he fulfilled it more than she asked him to. why would he say such a thing if his love ended? if NOTHING'S changed? he had fulfilled it already.

You're assuming the high affection version is canon. Those lines only happen during the High affection version, which isn't the canon outcome. You keep using OPTIONAL "facts" as inarguable truths. Optional scenes (when they have not been declared the canon outcome) do not matter in this debate. So while you might think what happens in these optional scenes is significant it really doesn't matter because at the end of the day that scene could very well be the outcome that ISN'T canon.

That said, who cares if he says that? Maybe he's saying nothings changed about them being friends or something? Who knows what Cloud meant, you can't assume something is definite just because it makes sense to you.

And like I said before; The 25thAU also proves that the Highwind Scene ends with Cloud and Tifa confirming that they requested/was seeking a companion for the last battle with Sephiroth (since at this time Cloud & Tifa thought none of the others were coming back to help).

"For many years, Cloud and Tifa used to hold favor with each other.
Finally facing the approaching last battle with Sephiroth, they were able to confirm established feelings for requested company/partnership." - FFVII25thAU

Now, this quote proves that what Cloud and Tifa were requesting was to go on as companions, not romantic companions, but friends fighting together. And what makes this such a big deal is the fact that both Cloud & Tifa believed that none of the others would return for the final battle. In both the HIGH and the LOW affection versions of this scene, they both agree that during the previous night they were together they established that they do not have to go on alone;

Tifa “....”
(Cloud stands.)
Cloud "We'd better go."
(She turns to him and makes a pleading gesture.)
Tifa "But, I still...!?"
(He turns to face her, shaking his head.)
Cloud "It's all right, Tifa. You said so yourself yesterday."
Cloud "At least we don't have to go on alone."
(A pause. Tifa nods)
Tifa"Yes... That's right!"

This dialog from EITHER version matches the above quote


So Cloud & Tifa leave for the final battle as "companions"--not romantic--but companions just like the rest.

he could let go of it by now. if his love ended, why was he stuttering like a broken car engine to tell her he loved her?

What? The only time ADULT Cloud stuttered about admitting anything was when he told Aerith "But I'M....... we're here for you, right?"

why did he spend two years in torture just for her and was willing to spend more? 2 years can hardly be counted as a short amount of time.

What are you talking about? "Two years in torture?"

it IS a short amount of time he meets aerith and she dies though. apparently not even 8 months has passed. but then again the time in ffvii is confusing. the best we know is that not even a year is passed when the whole thing happens. thats not even half the time cloud spent in shin-ra. how in the world could have have fallen in love with her FASTER than he did with tifa? and at that how could he have been real cloud? thats why i need that link you got it from. it just doesnt make sense of things.

I'm not even going to get into that discussion. Fans have actually proven how that time-chart is wrong but who cares how little of time they shared together? This is a fantasy story we're talking about. These extravagant stories are suppose to be like that. Titanic is just one story where two people fall in love in three days. Time does not matter. maybe it does in the real world, but not in a game about magic.

If it doesn't make sense to you after reading the above quotes then that should tell you that your opinions about "Zloud" and the "obsessive tifa crush" is wrong.

also i love how you say "nojima says" and "nomura says" with absolutely NO QUOTES to back it up. WHERE does it say he doesnt know the relationship of cloud and tifa?

Well, I've been involved in this debate since I was 15 ( ) and it's starting to get annoying to provide the quotes every single time. You should know better that i would not lie about something like that. I mean, what good would that do for me? If I was lying about something that proves I was wrong. But here you go;

A Final Fantasy VII fan interviewed Tetsuya Nomura for Dorimaga magazine and asked "How many girls has Sephiroth ever loved?". In reaction, Nomura spoke evasively in anticipation of more questions regarding Cloud and Tifa's love life, which have nothing to do with Sephiroth.

Tetsuya Nomura: What kind of question is that? I've never thought about it. Honestly, I don't care who loves whom. I think you could imagine the scenerios that we don't mention however you want to. You could enjoy talking about that with friends. For example, I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after FF7 ended, but I don't have any clue. ~ Dorimaga magazine; interview with Nomura; November, 2005
English version: http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=109&more=1
Japanese version: http://ff7-material.jugem.jp/?eid=2086

and at that where does it say he knows the relationship of cloud and AERITH?

Here;

Question: What was the thought behind bringing back Aeris (in KH)?

Nomura: Yes, she died in Final Fantasy VII, but there's no real relation to where she was at or what role she played in FFVII. There's no relationship from FFVII to the Kingdom Hearts stories. I consider them separate stories. But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in FFVII might be answered. It's sort of like a side story, and this was an extra bonus that I wanted to give to players. ~Official U.S. Playstation Magazine; October, 2002, page 139-140

What do you see at the end of KH1? You see Cloud reuniting with Aerith after searching for her for years. They are together. So the answer to their relationship is that they're "together".

if TIFA cant move in on cloud and shes ALIVE, aerith sure as balls wont do it. where the heck does it say that cloud is her lover?!?!?! where? what quote,interview, website etc said this? other wise please cease speaking it.

Aerith already has. Nomura said Aerith is forthright about her feelings; meaning she is open with her love for Cloud. See quote below;

“Both Aerith, who is forthright, and Tifa, who is demure, have feelings for Cloud but he is none the wiser to them.”

And I've already showed you where Nojima called Cloud Aerith's lover. You're not paying attention. But here, I'll provide the quote again.....

クラウドは女の友人であり、恋人であり
“Cloud was her(Aerith) friend, her lover-- a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected.” ~Case of Lifestream: White, Square Enix

Given that this comment was made around the time of Advent Children’s release and after the publication of On the Way to a Smile: Case of Tifa, if Nomura had no clue even then whether there was a relationship between Cloud and Tifa — neither an affirmative, nor a negative — and, indeed, didn’t even care who loved who, that would seem to indicate that he also had no clue whether Cloud was in love with Tifa or Aerith.

In other words, that would seem to mean that there’s no pairing to bedetermined as far as he’s concerned or even aware.

This statement, however, doesn’t preclude the other key developers of the Compilation of FFVII — such as Nojima, who made the comments cited at the beginning of this article — from having an opinion on it and an intention with the story.

That is such a shitty argument. No. Clotis claim Cloud & Tifa were canonized by the High Affection highwind scene, so if they were canon after the highwind scene then Square, and especially nomura, would know that. I find it funny that Nomura just mentions Cloud & Tifa instead of Cloud & Aerith. It really makes it clear that he wanted to just write off that possibility immediately.

“I’m sorry, I’m really sorry.”She felt Cloud’s hand on her shoulder. He was holding onto her firmly as if he didn’t want her to go anywhere. For now, I’ll just let myself cry as much as I want. I’ll leave the rest in his hands.

That novella is written in third person limited... meaning it's written from TIFA'S perspective. Nojima also said that he wanted to write Cloud as a person seen through Tifa's eyes.

"Oh, I just remembered. I wanted to write Cloud as a person, seen through Tifa's eyes. But he really isn't the type to open up (laughs). ~Nojima interview about On the Way to a Smile at the Square-Enix website

That quote proves that whatever Cloud does is tainted by Tifa's opinion on it. So in HER opinion he was doing that but that's limited to only HER opinion.

and why would cloud say this?

Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again. "Because I have you." “You’ve always had me.”“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

You can't just keep trying to argue other things by saying "yeah well what about this!" or "if that's true then why does he say this"... that is not how you win in debates.

this is days after the highwind. all of a sudden cloud smiles and says "Because I have you this time" for no reason? because "nothing romantic/sexual happened"? it obviously doesnt mean friendship because tifa nervously/shyly suggested he meant friendship. cloud replied "uh......tifa? remember the night before we all fought? because i do. and i wont forget it either." then smiled, sure tifa knew what he meant.

Um. What? Are you seriously trying to pass off your "fanboy" interpretation of that scene as canon? Just because you THINK that's what was going on doesn't mean shit. Everything you just said is ridiculous and pure fan assumption. If we're going to use fan assumptions as if they're canon then Cloud and Aerith made love on the gondolla! And while we're at it; Cloud and Aerith kissed in the flower field at the end of AC!

if nothing happened under the highwind why was he taking a long time to say "Because I have you"? if he meant it in friendship he most likely wouldnt have taken long like that. i mean come on you wont even admit they did some serious kissing? thats straight denial.

Again, if (and that's a BIG if) something happened under the highwind it doesn't matter because it ONLY happens in ONE version, a version that is not the canon outcome. Stop acting as if one particular version of that scene is canon, because the creators have not said which version is canon.

Of possibly greater significance to this matter than the CC Ultimania’s statement, however, is pg. 232 of the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 2: Scenario, which summarizes the stories of each Final Fantasy. There, under a heading that reads “The time of the last two before the final battle with Sephiroth,” is the script of the high affection version of the scene, along with two screenshots — one of Tifa saying the risque line from the high affection version, and the other of Cloud and Tifa sleeping against each other....

...................

The low affection version of the scene, meanwhile, isn’t spoken of at all — even while all four versions of the Gold Saucer date receive mention (pg. 225):

All this, then, makes how that scene played out rather undebatable as well.

That doesn't prove shit. The Clerith date is mentioned A LOT in those type of situations does that mean the Clerith date is canon?

so the low affection bull is happily thrown out the window.

and if you deny this, so you think that, besides of the hardcore proof of "for the one i love" that said they made mutual feeling WITHOUT WORDS (http://thelifestream.net/lifestream-...he-one-i-love/), you think they desired each other's - let me get the straight - FRIENDSHIP? ohhhh..it totally makes sense now!

"For many years, Cloud and Tifa used to hold favor with each other.
Finally facing the approaching last battle with Sephiroth, they were able to confirm established feelings for requested company/partnership." - FFVII25thAU

Now, this quote proves that what Cloud and Tifa were requesting was to go on as companions, not romantic companions, but friends fighting together. And what makes this such a big deal is the fact that both Cloud & Tifa believed that none of the others would return for the final battle. In both the HIGH and the LOW affection versions of this scene, they both agree that during the previous night they were together they established that they do not have to go on alone;

Tifa “....”
(Cloud stands.)
Cloud "We'd better go."
(She turns to him and makes a pleading gesture.)
Tifa "But, I still...!?"
(He turns to face her, shaking his head.)
Cloud "It's all right, Tifa. You said so yourself yesterday."
Cloud "At least we don't have to go on alone."
(A pause. Tifa nods)
Tifa"Yes... That's right!"

This dialog from EITHER version matches the above quote


So Cloud & Tifa leave for the final battle as "companions"--not romantic--but companions just like the rest.

why in the name of holy cows would they desire each other's if they were going to fight the next day? they were going to have it whether they liked it or not.

See, here's where you're messed up in your calculation. You think DESIRE is used in the sense of SEXUAL desire. But the "desire" definition that they are using is like saying "seeking" or "wanted". The word that TLS translated as "desire" is actually 求める.

And 求める means;
1: to want; to wish for;
2: to request; to demand;
3: to seek; to search for; to pursue (pleasure); to hunt (a job);
4: (Polite language) to purchase; to buy

So the word "desire" in the sexual sense IS NOT even there. TLS purposely changed the word to better their case. And TLS are known liars and they always use BIAS translations. Why? Because they're a bunch of rabid cloti tryhards.

WHOLE SENTENCE: ティファのクラウドに対する好感度が高い場合、飛空艇に残ったふたりは、互いを求める気持ちを確かめ合う。 (FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 27; Tifa's profile)

So I'm sorry but you've been lied to.

oh and what to ya know! it shows aerith's date, proving that her (as well as everyones) date is game mechanic wise and not according to the plot. also the word "companions" is already used, so cloud had it already had his "companionship" long ago.

No. I've already proven to you HOW and WHY the Clerith date is canon.

In a NON-OPTIONAL scene (the dream scene Cloud has of him and Aerith in the sleeping forest) includes Aerith SPEAKING of their date at Gold Saucer.

Aerith : Oh, Cloud... I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful.
I'll never forget it.
I'll never forget you, Cloud..." (TAKEN FROM DISMANTLED)

​

THAT is why the Clerith date is canon. Because Aerith and Cloud recalled their date in a scene with only ONE version, in other words it happened in a non-optional scene. Just like Advent Children canonized Yuffie and Vincent's existence.

tifa and cloud were also childhood friends. they had friendship too, so why would they desire that?

OK. Now I am fully convinced you never played the game. If you did you would know that they weren't "childhood friends" and that even TIFA says they weren't close.

Tifa "My room?"
Young Cloud "It was my first time there."
Tifa "Was... it?"
Young Cloud "I only used to look up at it from outside."
Tifa "Was that the first day you came into my room?"
Tifa "...that's right. We lived next to each other. But I really didn't know you that well."
Tifa "I've known you since we were children and I always thought we were close..."
Tifa "Now that you mention it... I don't recall you ever being in my room..."
Young Cloud "Tifa always used to be with this three-some."
Tifa "...That's right."

See? They were not friends. That's why they wanted to be companions, because they weren't true friends before that.

and if they "desired friendship",for how many hours into the night? alright, you suggested it. so what the heck would they do to desire each other's "companionship" without words?

It's not an "if", pal. It's a definite.

"For many years, Cloud and Tifa used to hold favor with each other.
Finally facing the approaching last battle with Sephiroth, they were able to confirm established feelings for requested company/partnership." - FFVII25thAU

That quote says they requested to be companions. Not lovers. And again, you keep thinking the HAHW scene is canon, when it's not. Your argument only stands if the HAHW scene is canon, which it isn't.

if nothing - absolutely nothing - physical happened under the highwind, what would they do?

THIS is the "physical" part that Tifa was talking about;

That is the ONLY physical thing that takes place. Cloud let Tifa lean on his shoulder while he kept his arms tightly crossed against his own chest (oooh so romantic! )

and it was the beginning of a night when the scene faded off. do you know how LONG that is for morning to come? what would they have done? im not pushing you into it like a pervert. you just refuse to admit it. it looks like you're doing it on purpose.

Um, you realize the creators said they talked from DUSK till DAWN, right?

Another event is when the party was dismissed and after everyone left for their own places separately, Cloud and Tifa spent the night together.
At that moment, according to Tifa's affection rating with Cloud, the event of "dialogues exchanged between them from dusk to dawn" and "Tifa's reaction and lines when she found out that everyone might see (or hear) that circumstance" will be different. ~FFVII Dismantled, page 201

If they spoke from dusk to dawn that means they did exactly that... speak. Not hump. This quote says no matter what version you get they speak from dusk until dawn. Sorry, no time for humping.

cloud pressed his lips to tifa's and kissed them. tifa did it back. they did it a lot more times because they WANTED to for years, then kicked it up a notch since its the last day on the planet, and cid saw them (or heard them).

You realize everything you just said is all your own little assumption. It's insane that you expect me to just accept your fan speculation as truth. Square has never said Cloud and Tifa kissed, you need to just accept that already, man. :/

this is a perfectly fine result to end up with due to the fact that S/E WANTED us to.

No and no. You've yet to provide proof of that.

and if they had "friendship" under the highwind, why did S/E note it when talking about cloud and tifa, with the FAMILY structure they put them in?

Because Cloud was ADOPTED into Barret and Tifa's family by Marlene. Tifa said so herself in CoT that their family is a family of "nakama" aka friends. This destroys your argument that it's a family built on romance.

he was. if you're so crazy about what what nomura says you would know that he says cloud is VERY happy with tifa and the kids. the guilt made him feel miserable.

Ah, so Cloud was happy in CoT? (answer this with either a yes or no answer please)

if you admit tifa is doubting clouds love, you just contradicted yourself. why would tifa be doubting his love if they both just displayed "companionship" to one another? if it was platonic all the way through, why would tifa think once about clouds love? you just admitted they had sex indirectly.

w-what? you're kidding right? did I just step into the twilight zone or something? um, first of all, no. Second of all, Tifa isn't doubting their love, that was my whole point. When I asked if Tifa was doubting their love (even though it was supposedly some amazing sex night where they confessed their wub) that was a rhetorical question, sug. I asked that to show you how nonsensical it is to say that Cloud and Tifa admitted their supposed undying love and had sex but then Tifa is ASKING Cloud IF he loves her less then a year later when he's supposedly "happy" with them? Do you not see how ridiculous that is. It makes no sense that Tifa would be so afraid to know Cloud's answer, that she changes her question before he could answer, if they were happy (like you claim) and they JUST admitted their love.

The only thing that explains why Tifa asks Cloud that question is because she has NO IDEA if he loves her, if she has no idea that means they did not confess love let alone have sex.

it has been said in the quote above that cloud loves tifa and the kids.

Um, where? And of course he loves all of his friends.

and if he felt miserable because of them why did he give tifa one of his rare smiles at the end?

He didn't. The last thing we see before Cloud smiles is him looking at AERITH.

tifa started doubting his love (therefore proving they slept together in the first place) because cloud suddenly acted distant. he started drinking when he wasnt a drinker. he left longer than usual. he was spending more time alone. even MARLENE complained of his absence ("Why don't you pay any attention to us?!") . cloud obviously was very loving when the family started off. then the guilt hit, and he couldnt shake it off. then he got incurable cancer. would you be feeling peachy?

Yeah, that does not make sense. She asked Cloud IF he loved her BEFORE he got geostigma. You claim Cloud only acted distant because of the disease. You seriously need to re-read Case of Tifa. Cloud and Tifa are fighting and not getting along WAY before the guilt really sets in or the disease begins. In Advent Children complete Tifa answers the phone and says "Cloud, you never call" when she thinks it's Cloud calling her (it's when Cloud gets Denzel). Not to mention, in ACC we see that Cloud was ignoring Tifa's calls for months on end BEFORE he got the disease. Cloud does not start getting happy in the family until Denzel arrives. Why? because Cloud believes it's Aerith who brought the boy to him.

tl;dr: Cloud and Tifa were fighting and not getting along BEFORE the disease... sooooo what gives? If Cloud's supposedly happy with Tifa and Marlene at this point in the story then why are they fighting and not getting along and just overall getting annoyed by one another, and why is Tifa FORCING herself to talk to Cloud?

She asked Cloud if he loved her because after years of having an unrequeted love she had to know, but when it came close to him answering her question she quickly backed out because she was afraid that he would say "no".

It's not that hard.

i also find it funny that S/E said they needed a man for aerith to love for her reason of the love triangle but they say absolutely zilch for tifa. isnt that funny?

I'll say this as politely as possible... I really don't understand what you're trying to say here?

and still......i have yet to see real cloud love aerith. i still have all zloud quotes. >.>

So you ARE just going to keep ignoring the quotes that I provided that proved Cloud was himself? Are you doing this on purpose or are you kidding?



CLERITH FEELS TIME

I ship Cloud and Aerith because Aerith is the first person in the game Cloud cares for besides himself. In fact, Cloud cares for Aerith despite not fully being himself. This fact doesn’t diminish their relationship, but proves how strong it actually is.

Before I go on, this is an important quote:
“After developing his personality by using Zack’s memory as a base, Cloud still maintained the part of coolness even though Zack had cheerful characteristics. The part of Cloud’s coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting “no interests” all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells. They belong to the real Cloud’s personality.” ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega

So although Cloud wasn’t completely himself during disc 1, parts of the ‘real’ Cloud were present during his time with Aerith. It is also stated that the Jenova cells inside Cloud mimicked Tifa’s memories of him. Since Tifa’s memories were of the ‘real’ Cloud, Jenova’s cells mimicked portions of the ‘real Cloud’ that fashioned yet another personality for him.

During the beginning of the game Cloud makes it very clear that he doesn’t care about the world, AVALANCHE, or anything but himself. Only with the promise of financial reward does Cloud agree to blow up the mako reactor. Then, after Cloud’s first mission with AVALANCHE, Tifa has to promise Cloud an even larger sum of money to convince him to stay.

However, with the introduction of Aerith, Cloud agrees to be her bodyguard for the mere price of a romantic date. He laughs with her. He takes her home safely, and even has a flashback in her house about having an ‘older’ girlfriend. What could possibly trigger this flashback besides romantic infatuation?

Another quote I’d like to draw attention to is this one:

"At the start of FFVII Cloud posed as a “cool ex-SOLDIER”, and kept up a cocky front. After it is revealed that he was never in SOLDIER, and he begins to act like himself, but he still doesn’t show his emotions very much. The only time he laughs in FFVII is during a conversation with Aerith at the start of the story, when Jenova is still in control of his consciousness.” ~Final Fantsay VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania

This is significant. Aerith was able to evoke laugher from Cloud despite Jenova’s control over his consciousness. It doesn’t make sense that Jenova would make Cloud flirt and laugh with Aerith, and we’ve already established that parts of the ‘real’ Cloud were there during his interaction with Aerith. Therefore, it is very significant that Aerith was the only character that was able to evoke laugher from Cloud. And it’s even more impressive that she was able to do it while Jenova was in control of his consciousness.

Aerith brought out something in Cloud that no one else was able to do. Tifa wasn’t even able to make Cloud laugh when Jenova WASN’T in control of his consciousness. The fact that Aerith was able to make Cloud laugh when Jenova WAS in control of Cloud’s consciousness tells us Aerith could do what no one else could — bring laughter, happiness, and joy to a man who was profoundly messed up.

The emotional connection between them began during their initial encounter when Cloud thought Aerith’s eyes were, "impressive" (1) and that her smile was a, "good purchase" (1). Cloud left this initial encounter with a, "mysterious" feeling (2), a feeling that I believe was love at first sight.

In fact, after all that unfolded during their first two encounters, Cloud tells Marlene that he “hopes” Aerith likes him.

Then, Barret observes how when Cloud wants to save Aerith from the Shinra headquarters, it was the first time he had ever seen Cloud care for someone besides himself (3).

Then, Cloud and Aerith flirt with each other in the Shinra jail cells. This leads to Tifa letting her, "peevish feelings slip" (4) when she witnesses the "world" (4) and “special bond” (5) Cloud and Aerith were forming together that was "different" (5) than the bond she had with Cloud.

Both Barret and Tifa see what should be obvious: Cloud. Likes. Aerith. He likes her a lot. He likes her so much he is willing to risk his life and save her from the Shinra headquarters after only knowing her for a short while (6). Aerith is the first person Cloud cares for besides himself.

In other words, if what we witnessed with our own eyes wasn’t enough, Squaresoft reinforces the obvious romantic attraction between Cloud and Aerith by telling us Tifa let her, "peevish feelings slip" (4) when she observed Cloud and Aerith’s "special bond" (5), and when they had Barret say Aerith was the first person he ever saw Cloud care for besides himself (3).

In a way, Barret’s observation is a clear indication to the gamer that Aerith must be someone very special and important to Cloud because despite how messed up he is, he truly cares for Aerith.

Eventually, Cloud tells Aerith he is there for her in Cosmo Canyon, and a date is shared between them in Golden Saucer. Cloud and Aerith’s time together during disc 1 is a very typical way in which romantic relationships begin — initial attraction based on physical features (check), thinking about relationships/talking about them (check), telling others you like them (check), flirting/spending alone time together/getting to know each other (check), outsiders observing/commenting on the mutual attraction (check), expressing that you are there for the other person (check), going on a date (check).

Then, when Aerith dies, you see Cloud breakdown, cry, and express more emotion than he has all game. Cloud expresses more emotion than any other character when Aerith dies. If his reaction and guilt about Aerith’s death does not prove he truly cares for and loves Aerith (despite not being his complete self when they interacted) I don’t know what does.

Even after Cloud realizes his past and fully becomes himself, he still carries grief, guilt, and sorrow over Aerith’s death. Therefore, if their relationship is somehow null-in-void because Cloud wasn’t completely himself during the time they spent together, why does Cloud (after becoming his complete self) harbor such emotion towards Aerith based on the time they shared while he was ‘messed up’? If Cloud continues to feel strong emotions towards Aerith after fully becoming himself, it means the time they spent together while he was ‘messed up’ is relevant and meaningful to the ‘real’ Cloud.

Aerith was the primary character that was able to bring out the caring side of the ‘real’ Cloud, despite how messed up he was. In other words, Aerith was able to bring the ‘real’ Cloud to the surface and have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through during a time when the ‘real’ Cloud was buried beneath Jenova’s cells and Zack’s memories.

It is silly and downright ridiculous to say that because Cloud wasn’t fully himself during most of his interaction with Aerith that their relationship is somehow insignificant or ‘lesser’. I believe that Cloud not being his complete self makes the case for Cloud x Aerith stronger. It proves that Aerith was the only character that was able to have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through and show us that Cloud not only cares for other people, but that he can, yes, even laugh.

"…there seems to be something between them”. ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix

____________________________________
1: “She’s a girl with impressive eyes. She’s around my age, or elder by one or two years. But the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger.
Aerith: “Excuse me, what happened?”
She asked me the question, and then I bought a flower from her, which is rare in Midgar.
Maybe she’s pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase.” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled ____________________________________
2: “After the explosion of First Reactor, Cloud met Aerith while running away alone. Cloud left the place, remembering the mysterious feeling he had for Aerith from the small conversation. He then reunited with AVALANCHE safely, and left for their base…” ~Final Fantasy VII, Story Playback, Page 111
____________________________________
3: Cloud: I didn’t want to start a ruckus till we saved Aerith. I should have known that was impossible though…
Barret: Heh, heh, heh.
Cloud: What is it? You’re givin’ me the willies.
Barret: So there are times when even you fight for other people. I am impressed.
Cloud: Who cares if you’re impressed…?
____________________________________
4: "Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings." ~Final Fantasy 10th Anniversary Ultimania
____________________________________
5: “Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Final Fantasy 10th Anniversary Ultimania
____________________________________
6: “Cloud: And then, Aerith got kidnapped.
In exchange for Marlene’s safety, she was taken away by the Turks.
If only she was not involved in this battle between me and Shinra…..
Aerith’s mother told us that she’s a foster child. And because she’s the last survival of “the Ancents,” Shinra was after her since she was little.
So far, it seemed the Turks had never tried to forcibly take her away in violent manner. They just persistently asked for her cooperation.
But, Shinra was entirely impetuous this time.
If Shinra changed the strategy all of a sudden, then no one can guarantee her safety.
I need to get in Shinra building.
I need to rescue her……by all means!” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled

I ADORED the part about how Tifa couldn't make Cloud laugh at all.

One thing though, you should have mentioned how Cloud says meeting Aerith was "amazing" right after waking up from dreaming about what his mother said about an older woman, I think this further proves that after meeting Aerith and feeling his mysterious feeling for her Cloud was reflecting on what his mother told him (coincidence I think not!). He was probably like "Damn, she was right."

Cloud: awoke from a nap (At Aerith's house)

Cloud: "It’s quite amazing.
Previously, I met a flower girl, Aerith, at 5th Street of the Slum, and now I'm at her place.
I seemed to fall down from the 5th reactor to the Slum underneath. The Church’s roof and the flowers Aerith grows there alleviated the impact of falling, so I survived safe and sound.
And for some reason, Shinra is keeping an eye on her.
When we were at the Church, a rascal with a strange tone came to seize her. His name is Reno, his clothes showed that he belongs to the Turks, a secret organization/troops of Shinra, that undertakes some dirty works that never go public. Why do the Turks want to capture her? They called her “the Ancient”…..
Well, it’s midnight already, seems about time to leave for the 7th Street.
Aerith said that she’ll show me the way. But if I let her, it seems hard to tell who’s the bodyguard.
I’m gonna slip out of here."

The above quote is AMAZING because Cloud says meeting Aerith was amazing and he says this right after feeling his mysterious feeling, adoring her eyes and smile, and of course having the dream where his mother suggests a girl like Aerith for him. To me, Cloud saying it was "amazing" that he met Aerith shows that Cloud was accepting that he was falling in love with her. Why else would he say something like that?

In other words, if what we witnessed with our own eyes wasn’t enough, Squaresoft reinforces the obvious romantic attraction between Cloud and Aerith by telling us Tifa let her, "peevish feelings slip" (4) when she observed Cloud and Aerith’s "special bond" (5), and when they had Barret say Aerith was the first person he ever saw Cloud care for besides himself (3).

CRAP! I forgot to mention, you should mention how in DISMANTLED Tifa says she was bothered by the way Cloud and another girl (Aerith) became so close.

Tifa: in Don's Mansion
Tifa: "Hummm... I was in a complicated mood today—I was happy, but somehow, I felt annoyed at the same time. Though I need to get more information no matter what, it’s still risky to visit Don’s mansion by myself… that notorious lecher! I knew I should have settled my determination, but I couldn’t stop my teardrops.
Cloud came to rescue me (and dressed like a girl!) when I was thinking that I might not survive this time. Therefore, I was very happy. I thought I had an illusion when I first saw him in the park.

It’s just that...I was displeased at the way Cloud and another girl(Aerith) soon became good friends.
Well, Aerith is a very good girl, I was fond of her soon, too. No wonder…


See how Tifa points out that Cloud & Aerith were close and how she was jealous of it?

And GreyGardens, about Aerith bringing out the real Cloud....

In DISMANTLED Cloud asks AERITH who he is.

The Icicle Area~Forgotten Capital monologue:
Cloud: "Aerith is dead. Right in front of my eyes...
I couldn't stop Sephiroth. She was in my reach, and all I could do is stand there and watch as his sword ran through Aerith. All the time Aerith used to smile, like a flower. But, Aerith won't smile anyway. I won't be able to hear her innocent laugh again. What did she do? Why did Aerith have to be killed? What am I supposed to do about this anger, it's like endlessly boiling up and burning up my body. Yet at the same time, I was afraid. Like a chill coming from the core of my body. When I found Aerith there, offering up some pray, what did I try to do? If my friends hadn't stopped me at that moment, I would have struck my sword down onto Aerith. It was something separate from my own will... it was like when I gave Sephiroth the Black Materia---

Who am I? I'm EX-SOLDIER Cloud... right?

Tell me, Aerith---"


See how Cloud asks AERITH who he is? He is still confused about his true past but he's seeking Aerith's help in finding out who he is. This is significant because Cloud feels like it's AERITH who knows him best. This is especially significant because at this time Cloud is suppose to be under the false impression that he and Tifa were childhood friends, meaning out of all the characters Tifa should be the one that Cloud asks who he is. However, despite Jenova trying to manipulate Cloud into believing that he and Tifa were friends Cloud STILL asked AERITH who he was because he knew something was up. This shows that Cloud ignored the manipulations of Jenova and sought out Aerith's help about who he truly is. Thus proving Aerith brings out the REAL Cloud.

I think the question of "which couple is meant to be together" is a bit misleading. If the plan was for Aerith to die all along then obviously she and Cloud weren't meant to be together. Now before anyone bites my head off, I'm not arguing here that he didn't care for or love Aerith. I think his reaction to her death shows that he cared for her in some capacity (I'm not going to say he loved her romantically because I didn't see anything definitive in the game that proved this to me). Overall, Aerith seems to mainly be a catalyst character that brings about change in Cloud.

Cloud and Aerith were never officially a couple in the game and I don't think they were "meant to be together" considering her death. But I think it's clear she was an important part of his life.

That's just my two cents.

With all due respect, Tia... but going by your logic Rose and Jack weren't meant to be together either... the same for every other tragic romance. Just because Aerith died doesn't mean she and Cloud did not love each other eternally. I mean, Tidus was dead/gone for two years but did that mean Yuna and Tidus weren't meant to be? Of course not.

cloud had colossal guilt for aerith. but he had it for zack also. he had the same exact feeling - nothing less or different - for both if them in AC.

We've been through this already NothingToSeeHere. I've already proven to you how Cloud's guilt for Zack was not even close to being on the same level of depth as his guilt and sadness for Aerith. You've once again failed to provide any evidence to prove your claim.

also i would like to note that nowhere on cloud and aeriths profile it says nowhere of romantic feeling reciprocated. what i mean is:
(for zerith)

1. aeriths profile says she was attracted greatly to zack.
2. zacks profile says he was attracted greatly to her.

3. aeriths profile says she was VERY intimate with zack.
4. zacks profile says he was VERY imitate with aerith.

5. moreover it says in zacks profile aerith is IRREPLACEABLE to him. pretty selfish for cloud to steal his best friends only true love, am i right?

Ok.... WHAT?! You're trippin', man. None of that has EVER been stated. Dismantled says the exact OPPOSITE actually. In VII and in Dismantled Aerith says she and Zack were not intimate or serious.

Aerith: "I was a little surprised that this village was Zack's birthplace! Although called my first love, that doesn't mean that we became particularly intimate.

I encountered him by chance as a flower vendor in Midgar. It was good for a little while, so I thought. A friendly, childish SOLDIER, who even gave kindness to girls.
I encountered Zack and began to think that even a good natured person was from Shinra.

Therefore, 5 years ago, when Zack departed somewhere on a mission and he seemingly disappeared, I cried considerably. Yeah, I call this first love. Mother got angry at Zack when she saw me like that. That matter made him completely at fault.

At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke... his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.
But Cloud is clueless." - DISMANTLED

1. clouds profile considers tifa in his family.
2. tifa considers cloud in her family.

....So? You know Barret also consideres BOTH of them his family right? And you know Marlene ADOPTED Cloud into Barret and Tifa's already pre-established family, right?

3. cloud had love for tifa and it was revealed in his subconscious.
4. tifa had love for cloud and it was revealed in his subconscious.

No, Tifa found out that, while she was treating Cloud like garbage as children, he had a FLEETING & IMMATURE & DIM crush on her. That's what she found out.

5. cloud finally showed her his feelings without words under the highwind.
6. tifa finally showed her feelings for cloud without words under the highwind.

Rinse and repeat.

1. That is only IF you get the high affection one, which is not canon.
2. What they do without words is sit next to each other, and that is ALL they do.
3. Nomura said they both spoke from dusk until dawn in either version, meaning NO sex happened.
4. The 25thAU says Cloud and Tifa agreed to be platonic companions after the highwind scene.

im not making stuff up. would cleriths please take the hints already! >.< clerith isnt real! cloti andzerith is! and both are beautiful. and like you said, it was even intended since she was planned to die.

You are making stuff up though. That's all you ever do. This is getting ridiculous. I almost can't take this serious, man.

 

[Ilyena]

With all due respect, Tia... but going by your logic Rose and Jack weren't meant to be together either... the same for every other tragic romance. Just because Aerith died doesn't mean she and Cloud did not love each other eternally. I mean, Tidus was dead/gone for two years but did that mean Yuna and Tidus weren't meant to be? Of course not.

Yes, that's exactly what it means.

Rose and Jack weren't meant to be together. That's the whole thing that makes the romance tragic. There is no happily ever after. Of course by "meant to be together", I mean in the "we'll spend the rest our lives together" sense because that's typically what people mean by that. Rose moved on and lived a full life. Sure she still loved Jack but they weren't together because he was dead. I did not play X-2 so unless Tidus came back in the end of that, I would say the same of Yuna and Tidus.

Tragic romances are just that. Tragic. Because there's a whole sense of what could have been.

Do I think Cloud and Aerith could have been a couple had she lived? Sure.

My point is, you can't be with someone who is dead without it causing some serious and icky ethical issues.

I'm not arguing against the fact that he cared about her but I think saying they were meant to be together is a stretch. But maybe we have different ideas of what that means.

 

[The Witch]

Yes, that's exactly what it means.

Rose and Jack weren't meant to be together. That's the whole thing that makes the romance tragic. There is no happily ever after. Of course by "meant to be together", I mean in the "we'll spend the rest our lives together" sense because that's typically what people mean by that. Rose moved on and lived a full life. Sure she still loved Jack but they weren't together because he was dead. I did not play X-2 so unless Tidus came back in the end of that, I would say the same of Yuna and Tidus.

Tragic romances are just that. Tragic. Because there's a whole sense of what could have been.

Do I think Cloud and Aerith could have been a couple had she lived? Sure.

My point is, you can't be with someone who is dead without it causing some serious and icky ethical issues.

I'm not arguing against the fact that he cared about her but I think saying they were meant to be together is a stretch. But maybe we have different ideas of what that means.

Ah, well of course they're not physically together. But that's the beauty in these type of romances. They still love each other despite that. They might move on in a sense but their true love is is still the person they lost. When people say "meant to be together" they mean feelings wise. As long as the two people wanted to be together that's what matters. Rose moved on cuz Jack asked her to, she's also reunited in heaven with Jack at the end of the film... so they are "meant to be"... just because something kept them apart doesn't mean they don't truly love on another.

But Cloud & Aerith were meant to be together, Square even made another character predict their wedding and say they were perfect for each other... on top of that, Nomura has said Aerith's soul lives on in Cloud's soul, making them soul mates. So, again, just cuz something came between them physically (death) does not mean that they do not love each other. Cloud could move on like Rose did... or he could liv a life without loving anyone else, either way it doesn't change the fact that when Cloud dies he's choosing and hoping to be with Aerith in his place of supreme happiness because he loves her eternally. Whether they can be together in the living world doesn't stop love, especially in a fantasy game.

So, when I say meant to be together, I mean if the stars had not crossed them they would have married, had kids, and gotten old together.

 

[Six]

Just popping in to say that that characters' predictions have been wrong before as well. For the short period of time that Cloud and Aerith spent together I honestly believe that Cloud & company started caring about her deeply, but in no way romantically.

People keep saying that Cloud x Tifa's love was faint, immature etc etc, but actually it was Cloud in his own mind (in the lifestream) that told Tifa to tell Cloud what she said later, and that he'd probably be so happy to hear it. Why? ♥ =]

Also, in no way, shape or form can we know that if Aerith had lived her and Cloud would've gotten together, gotten married, had children etc. He had Tifa way before Aerith came in to the picture, and those feelings don't just change if you see them play through so clearly in Final Fantasy VII.

I honestly believe Cloud cared for Aerith a lot, but it wasn't romantic love.

 

[The Witch]

Just popping in to say that that characters' predictions have been wrong before as well. For the short period of time that Cloud and Aerith spent together I honestly believe that Cloud & company started caring about her deeply, but in no way romantically.

People keep saying that Cloud x Tifa's love was faint, immature etc etc, but actually it was Cloud in his own mind (in the lifestream) that told Tifa to tell Cloud what she said later, and that he'd probably be so happy to hear it. Why? ♥ =]

Also, in no way, shape or form can we know that if Aerith had lived her and Cloud would've gotten together, gotten married, had children etc. He had Tifa way before Aerith came in to the picture, and those feelings don't just change if you see them play through so clearly in Final Fantasy VII.

I honestly believe Cloud cared for Aerith a lot, but it wasn't romantic love.

No, his predictions weren't wrong.

"People" aren't saying Cloud's crush was faint, immature, etc.... Square Enix is. Notice it was Kid!Cloud that said that. No matter, that doesn't negate from the fact that his crush was described as dim, immature, and fleeting. He didn't "have" Tifa before VII, either. He carried a crush on her that was dim and immature, much like the other boys of their home town, but he did not have her. Cloud & Tifa weren't even friends then, Tifa says so herself. So he did not have her. Those dim and immature feelings do change because Square says so. They're the ones that said Cloud DIMLY fell in love with Tifa, they're the ones that said his crush was immature and fleeting.

you can say all you'd like that Cloud did not harbor romantic feelings for Aerith but evidence says otherwise. Cloud did not just say a woman (Aerith) has impressive eyes and a smile worth buying and then goes on two dates with her if he didn't have romantic feelings and interest in her.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

I ship Cloud and Aerith because Aerith is the first person in the game Cloud cares for besides himself. In fact, Cloud cares for Aerith despite not fully being himself. This fact doesn’t diminish their relationship, but proves how strong it actually is.

Before I go on, this is an important quote:
“After developing his personality by using Zack’s memory as a base, Cloud still maintained the part of coolness even though Zack had cheerful characteristics. The part of Cloud’s coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting “no interests” all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells. They belong to the real Cloud’s personality.” ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega

So although Cloud wasn’t completely himself during disc 1, parts of the ‘real’ Cloud were present during his time with Aerith. It is also stated that the Jenova cells inside Cloud mimicked Tifa’s memories of him. Since Tifa’s memories were of the ‘real’ Cloud, Jenova’s cells mimicked portions of the ‘real Cloud’ that fashioned yet another personality for him.

During the beginning of the game Cloud makes it very clear that he doesn’t care about the world, AVALANCHE, or anything but himself. Only with the promise of financial reward does Cloud agree to blow up the mako reactor. Then, after Cloud’s first mission with AVALANCHE, Tifa has to promise Cloud an even larger sum of money to convince him to stay.

However, with the introduction of Aerith, Cloud agrees to be her bodyguard for the mere price of a romantic date. He laughs with her. He takes her home safely, and even has a flashback in her house about having an ‘older’ girlfriend. What could possibly trigger this flashback besides romantic infatuation?

Another quote I’d like to draw attention to is this one:

"At the start of FFVII Cloud posed as a “cool ex-SOLDIER”, and kept up a cocky front. After it is revealed that he was never in SOLDIER, and he begins to act like himself, but he still doesn’t show his emotions very much. The only time he laughs in FFVII is during a conversation with Aerith at the start of the story, when Jenova is still in control of his consciousness.” ~Final Fantsay VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania

This is significant. Aerith was able to evoke laugher from Cloud despite Jenova’s control over his consciousness. It doesn’t make sense that Jenova would make Cloud flirt and laugh with Aerith, and we’ve already established that parts of the ‘real’ Cloud were there during his interaction with Aerith. Therefore, it is very significant that Aerith was the only character that was able to evoke laugher from Cloud. And it’s even more impressive that she was able to do it while Jenova was in control of his consciousness.

Aerith brought out something in Cloud that no one else was able to do. Tifa wasn’t even able to make Cloud laugh when Jenova WASN’T in control of his consciousness. The fact that Aerith was able to make Cloud laugh when Jenova WAS in control of Cloud’s consciousness tells us Aerith could do what no one else could — bring laughter, happiness, and joy to a man who was profoundly messed up.

The emotional connection between them began during their initial encounter when Cloud thought Aerith’s eyes were, "impressive" (1) and that her smile was a, "good purchase" (1). Cloud left this initial encounter with a, "mysterious" feeling (2), a feeling that I believe was love at first sight.

In fact, after all that unfolded during their first two encounters, Cloud tells Marlene that he “hopes” Aerith likes him.

Then, Barret observes how when Cloud wants to save Aerith from the Shinra headquarters, it was the first time he had ever seen Cloud care for someone besides himself (3).

Then, Cloud and Aerith flirt with each other in the Shinra jail cells. This leads to Tifa letting her, "peevish feelings slip" (4) when she witnesses the "world" (4) and “special bond” (5) Cloud and Aerith were forming together that was "different" (5) than the bond she had with Cloud.

Both Barret and Tifa see what should be obvious: Cloud. Likes. Aerith. He likes her a lot. He likes her so much he is willing to risk his life and save her from the Shinra headquarters after only knowing her for a short while (6). Aerith is the first person Cloud cares for besides himself.

In other words, if what we witnessed with our own eyes wasn’t enough, Squaresoft reinforces the obvious romantic attraction between Cloud and Aerith by telling us Tifa let her, "peevish feelings slip" (4) when she observed Cloud and Aerith’s "special bond" (5), and when they had Barret say Aerith was the first person he ever saw Cloud care for besides himself (3).

In a way, Barret’s observation is a clear indication to the gamer that Aerith must be someone very special and important to Cloud because despite how messed up he is, he truly cares for Aerith.

Eventually, Cloud tells Aerith he is there for her in Cosmo Canyon, and a date is shared between them in Golden Saucer. Cloud and Aerith’s time together during disc 1 is a very typical way in which romantic relationships begin — initial attraction based on physical features (check), thinking about relationships/talking about them (check), telling others you like them (check), flirting/spending alone time together/getting to know each other (check), outsiders observing/commenting on the mutual attraction (check), expressing that you are there for the other person (check), going on a date (check).

Then, when Aerith dies, you see Cloud breakdown, cry, and express more emotion than he has all game. Cloud expresses more emotion than any other character when Aerith dies. If his reaction and guilt about Aerith’s death does not prove he truly cares for and loves Aerith (despite not being his complete self when they interacted) I don’t know what does.

Even after Cloud realizes his past and fully becomes himself, he still carries grief, guilt, and sorrow over Aerith’s death. Therefore, if their relationship is somehow null-in-void because Cloud wasn’t completely himself during the time they spent together, why does Cloud (after becoming his complete self) harbor such emotion towards Aerith based on the time they shared while he was ‘messed up’? If Cloud continues to feel strong emotions towards Aerith after fully becoming himself, it means the time they spent together while he was ‘messed up’ is relevant and meaningful to the ‘real’ Cloud.

Aerith was the primary character that was able to bring out the caring side of the ‘real’ Cloud, despite how messed up he was. In other words, Aerith was able to bring the ‘real’ Cloud to the surface and have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through during a time when the ‘real’ Cloud was buried beneath Jenova’s cells and Zack’s memories.

It is silly and downright ridiculous to say that because Cloud wasn’t fully himself during most of his interaction with Aerith that their relationship is somehow insignificant or ‘lesser’. I believe that Cloud not being his complete self makes the case for Cloud x Aerith stronger. It proves that Aerith was the only character that was able to have the ‘real’ Cloud shine through and show us that Cloud not only cares for other people, but that he can, yes, even laugh.

"…there seems to be something between them”. ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix

____________________________________
1: “She’s a girl with impressive eyes. She’s around my age, or elder by one or two years. But the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger.
Aerith: “Excuse me, what happened?”
She asked me the question, and then I bought a flower from her, which is rare in Midgar.
Maybe she’s pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase.” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled ____________________________________
2: “After the explosion of First Reactor, Cloud met Aerith while running away alone. Cloud left the place, remembering the mysterious feeling he had for Aerith from the small conversation. He then reunited with AVALANCHE safely, and left for their base…” ~Final Fantasy VII, Story Playback, Page 111
____________________________________
3: Cloud: I didn’t want to start a ruckus till we saved Aerith. I should have known that was impossible though…
Barret: Heh, heh, heh.
Cloud: What is it? You’re givin’ me the willies.
Barret: So there are times when even you fight for other people. I am impressed.
Cloud: Who cares if you’re impressed…?
____________________________________
4: "Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings." ~Final Fantasy 10th Anniversary Ultimania
____________________________________
5: “Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Final Fantasy 10th Anniversary Ultimania
____________________________________
6: “Cloud: And then, Aerith got kidnapped.
In exchange for Marlene’s safety, she was taken away by the Turks.
If only she was not involved in this battle between me and Shinra…..
Aerith’s mother told us that she’s a foster child. And because she’s the last survival of “the Ancents,” Shinra was after her since she was little.
So far, it seemed the Turks had never tried to forcibly take her away in violent manner. They just persistently asked for her cooperation.
But, Shinra was entirely impetuous this time.
If Shinra changed the strategy all of a sudden, then no one can guarantee her safety.
I need to get in Shinra building.
I need to rescue her……by all means!” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled

again with the zloud points???

*sigh*
im beginning to see the basis of all of the clerith's proof is extremely based the beginning and throughout the game, up when hes still zloud.

im going to repeat myself again: IT LOOKS COMPLETELY, TRUE, AND 100% LIKE CLERITH FROM ALL YOUR POINTS. i admit it. and im not scared or ashamed to say it. yes it does. if this is what you wanted to hear, here i am saying it, of the top of my lungs at that.

but they are all utterly useless. why? because cloud was having TWO DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES at this point. why dont you get it? cant you see? you are noting the BEGINNING cloud, the cloud who hasnt even HEARD of a SOLDIER named zack. the game was supposed to make it look like clerith. only an utter fool would deny it. but cloud was reacting out of his zack personality, so of COURSE he would like aerith. cleriths also argue the "but aerith saw the real cloud!" not at the beginning of the game . she saw another chance to be with zack and took it, proven by the quotes. in fact, im not denying she saw the real cloud, but the whole reason she could was BECAUSE of following him down because of his zack tendencies. cloud was NOT cloud in the beginning of the game. the date doesnt prove jackcrap.

1. cloud "accepted"the date, right? no. he just nodded his head. "but that means it yes,moron!" let me continue. cloud nodded his head to seem like he said yes,because guess what? he tried to LEAVE HER not even 5 hours later. it wasnt intended in his mind to accept the date at all. as soon as he made the nod, cloud had already decided that he wouldnt accept it.

2. if the date is canon, (all the dates are based on game mechanics) cloud is ZLOUD at this point, so this doesnt mean a thing. for another thing all the dates are one sided, even tifa's. aerith DRAGS cloud into the date, she has to literally PUSH him into doing it. SHE suggests of joining the play, SHE brings him into the date....ship....flying thingie...(WHAT EVER THE HECK ITS CALLED!!!!! >.<) and SHE brings in the conversation. for pete's sake its right here!

cloud is in no way making his own moves the entire time. the dates are FORCED and ONE SIDED. all of them. even tifa's. but aerith said she "wanted to see the real cloud!" you just contradicted yourself. if she wanted to see the REAL cloud, wouldnt that make a huge honking twist of logic that cloud isnt himself at all?????

im not saying cloud wasnt cloud at all in the beginnings of the game. im not saying the real cloud's spirit was gone forever and jevova and zack took his place and was controlling a dead body. that would be contradicting myself because i ADMIT cloud was there in the beginning of the game. in my previous posts back, i said that real cloud was just buried, not gone never to come back. the real cloud was there, but he has 2% power of himself compared to the overwhelming personality and of zack and the control JENOVA. he only comes out with tifa, and even the its not always, and even THEN its in tiny amounts. like telling barret to "take care of tifa!".
:/ well.....o....k???? that doesnt seem like much compared that aerith was cloud were declared PERFECT and were "destined" to be married. yeah, "take care of tifa" seems more romantic right?
but then it was revealed cloud wasnt cloud. and aerith's " i want to meet you" was finally understood. cloud was zloud. for a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time. and if he was interested into her it was out of zloud's feelings. why? because (and cleriths kindly ignore this for some mysteeeeeeeerious reason unknown to man) of clouds subconscious, when its revealed he ALWAYS loved tifa. as REAL cloud. and he never stopped. thats what nails it for me. he didnt move one inch.

"nice try bozo loser stupid idiot moron chicken face doofus idiot times 2 crazy cloti, but all of clouds memories are in the PAST. his feelings could have changed. ha!"then why did kid cloud say adult cloud WILL BE (future predicate tense) overjoyed to know by the simple fact of tifa looking for him in the news? she looked for him in the past, yet the recent cloud would be elated to know this. why would recent cloud be ecstatic to know about the crush he had on that he doesnt have anymore looked for him in the news? he wouldnt care. he doesnt like her anymore. would YOU care about your 3rd grade crush if she looked at you when you didnt know, and you have a completely different girlfriend you love much better than her anyway in 11th grade? or would you care if your 3rd grade crush who you love to this day told you she looked at you when you werent knowing it? which predicament would you choose to seem more sane?

and here we go on the "cloud cares about aerith so he MUST want to get in her pants!" for once id like to correct you on that. cloud doesnt like aerith. he loves her. very much. just not in the way he does tifa. secondly if cloud said he liked aeriths spit water cleriths would think it was romanic. ok, like i said previously, those points are as zloud so it looks like clerith. like a lot. but lets zoom ahead shall we? FURTHER in the compilation. in AC he displays nothing but guilt: for aerith AND zack. he doesnt feel any more or less different for each. where is it displayed in AC he wants more than guilt, that he wants to have spirit sex with aerith? that he screws zack over and only wants aerith's forgiveness? he already chose tifa long ago - when he was 8yrs old. he cares about aerith AND zack. he loves them both. and apparently, a ton. he even let his life be ruled by them for years. moreover if you read this you see that cloud puts one in the same zone as the other.

The place where Cloud awakens
That is Cloud's Promised Land
As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn't belong here yet.

he feels fatally romantic to aerith, then he turns around and he friend zones her right along with zack. his relationship hasnt changed with her.

yet.......

When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma- his family were waiting.

O_O

holy cow. tifa has been from "childhood friend" to a FAMILY member? a part of CLOUD'S family? what in the name of ronald mcdonald's grandfather's fine china cabinet happened?


ohhhhhh....well, excuse me for my asking. it makes total sense now.

in addition all your points are post cloud subconscious so they dont matter later on in the game, BUT.

BUT.

those reasons you posted are why YOU support clerith, not why its canon. so i apologize for even be talking to you like this if i offended you. to be honest i didnt support cloti but i knew it was the couple from the obviousness of S/E. i think i began supporting it when people said it wasnt cloti. what is really funny is that i got the low affection highwind scene from GoingCrazy201 from youtube, so i had no idea why people were referencing the "risque" line. i didnt see anything. cloud just suggested to get some sleep, thats it. but then i looked into it more and saw what everyone was talking about. anyways im just asking - pleading even - for some points of clerith after clouds subconscious and after AC. but no one has. : (

Keep in mind, Cloud said he didn't give a shit about what happened to the planet or its people when TIFA was still alive.

maybe because tifa was alive, he wouldnt be saying this stuff to her. ever thought of that? you stinking serious about this? tifa is ALIVE at this point, so why would he say something like that?

and i mean, yes, he TOTALLY didnt give anything about her when he TOLD AERITH TO GO HOME SO HE COULD SAVE TIFA. when HE told barret to take care of tifa when he had no need to. when HE stayed because barret motivated him of the promise. i mean, phfft. yeah.

I just imagined Cid watching Cloud turn Tifa down.... awkward.

yea, no KIDDING it would be awkward. apparently tifa was so "awkward" of it she fell down on the ground of embarrassment, and cloud scratching his head for no reason. you must be having a new kind of epiphany or something.

W-what?

read the quote again of you are so confused.

Highwind scene... which one? Both haven't been declared the canon outcome so this is stupid talking about an optional scene.

its NOT optional. STOP SAYING THAT. whether low or high, IT WILL COME. give one single proof that says "oh you can choose to have that scene if you like." thats like trying to skip the hentai scene of yuna and tidus making out (which is kinda yucky).

Cot shows Cloud and Tifa fighting constantly, lying to each other, being annoyed by one another

oh really? (http://thelifestream.net/novels-novellas/on-the-way-to-a-smile-episodetifa/)

Tifa didn’t know and put her hand on her neck. Cloud was in Midgar somewhere. She imagined how the worst could have happened as he was caught in an accident where he went to work or he was being attacked by some monster.

sounds like shes pretty worried about him to me. i dunno. :/

“But when I think about how many times I’ve thought about how I was going to start a new life, it’s funny."
“Why?”
“Because I’ve always failed everything.”
“That’s not funny.”
“After this … I think I’ll be okay.”
Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again.
“Because I have you this time.”

“You’ve always had me.”
“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

seeming really annoyed with him right?

When Tifa and Cloud were alone, Cloud said, “It’s not like you to be troubled by your thoughts.”

“It’s… Just the way I am.”
“No. You’re much more cheerful and strong. If you’ve forgotten the way you were then, I’ll be there to remind you.”
“You really will?”
“Probably,” Cloud said blushing.

the hatred is strong with this one....

Maybe you could call that family. We just had to keep the family together and do our best. Tifa thought she could get over anything while being with friends that she could call her family.
“A family.” (Tifa)
“Yeah.” (Marlene)
Marlene cheerfully answered in response to Tifa’s murmur.
“I’ll put Cloud in our family too.” (Marlene)
“I appreciate that.” (Cloud)
After Cloud thanked Marlene’s innocent offer with his serious face, he looked at Tifa. Tifa nodded a little. Would there be various problems arising after this? However, Tifa decided that she whould stop worrying about the relationship between the two of them.

t seemed a few people came to help Cloud complete the modifications. Marlene and her young neighborhood friends watched. The scene reassured Tifa that they were really becoming a family in the world.

But now after he had his own bike that he could use freely, he would be able to take longer trips. Sometimes he would bring home rare foods and surprise Tifa.

i mean, im sobbing of the annoyance, lying, and fighting. if cloud felt anything outside of happy, it wasnt because of tifa or the kids. it was THE GUILT. this has been said multiple times. i even have the special disc for it for pete's sake.

Also, you realize that Barret and Tifa raised Marlene together BEFORE Cloud even was introduced in VII right? And you also realize that Marlene ADOPTED Cloud into Barret and Tifa's family, making him like Tifa's child?

1. tifa and barret arent a family. they didnt say one word about it. cloud, however says family in AC WITH TIFA with no hesitations. so what the balls does that prove?

2. tifa and barret and all of AVALANCHE were living together (you forgot to note that). so how in the heck could they even start a family in the first place? and thats just plain ridiculous to suggest. i have no idea why cleriths point this out like it means something.

i wish to agree with your essay, because none of the dates should be taken into plot. so while you disproved tifa's (but it was kind weird) aerith's isnt plot driven either.

sometimes cloti's can be silly though.

Argument 2. “The song that plays during that scene is “Interrupted by fireworks/Drowned by fireworks” which matches Tifa best because Tifa doesn’t get to finish telling Cloud her feelings because she is literally interrupted by fireworks.”
The second and most known argument used. The song that plays on the gondola is indeed a song named “Interrupted by Fireworks.”

uh, just because tifa was going to tell cloud doesnt mean he would feel the same, so.....>.> and the music doesnt mean a thing. i mean, what? :T

"Marlene is a sharp girl
"Even though she’s only 4 years old, Marlene is perceptive and well attuned to the woman mind. The scene where she ascertains that Aerith has favor for Cloud and tells him so, then says “I won’t tell Tifa!” demonstrates this grownup behavior.”

マリンはおませんな女の子
まだ4歳なのに、マリンはおしゃまで女心に敏感。エアリスがクラウドに好意を持っていることを見抜いて彼に 報告し、「ティファには内緒にしておく」と一人前に気をまわすひ と幕も。

IMAGE PROVIDED BY TLS * SOURCE

exactly. AERITH has a fancy for cloud. it didnt say a word about cloud giving it back. like the quote said, marlene is perceptive, and she noticed tifa loved him too, so thats why she said it. and, following her perceptive tendencies, she made cloud and tifa into a family. hm. i wonder why? not because she noticed they LOVED EACH OTHER MAYBE?

Just to clarify, SE never said that Kato wanted a chocobo stable sex scene. All SE said was that the original scene with the risque dialogue was supposed to have taken place in a chocobo stable. Some fans jump to the conclusion that SE is saying sex happened but it seems people forget that just because something is "risque"(AKA suggestive of something sexual) doesn't mean anything actually happened.

um, you didnt need to "clarify" anything. what part made it obvious? the fact that he rejected it? the fact that its NOT IN THE GAME? since when did i insist there was sex in a stable? since when did i speak a word about it? its funny that you should note that quote and completely ignore

But I think perhaps no one expected that line to be so important

and his laugh. why would he say that and break out LAUGHING? because there are people who still think its clerith. why would he say "we never knew it was so important"? because he just wants random lines to be important? the line tifa says is crucial to the game. not aerith's "im looking for you".

For all we know, maybe SE toned down the scene by changing the setting because they didn't want people to absolutely think something did happen.

*sigh*

or they could have completed their college educations, planted gardens, took care of come chocobos, and ate until they threw up and passed out at an all you can eat buffet. or they could have danced with chickens in the middle of midgar.

BUT THEY DIDN'T.

And speaking of balance, one really has to ask: If there were no Tifa, would there still be enough evidence post-FFVII to suggest that Cloud is in love with Aerith? He loves her, sure, but would he otherwise seem romantically interested?
.............
On the other hand, were there no Aerith, I don’t think anyone would question what’s established by the Highwind scene, the CoT and CoB dialogue, and the family structure with Tifa.

firstly, why would someone ask such a ridiculous question of "does cloud love aerith" if it was ALREADY ESTABLISHED he did? and no, this cant be before all the info on couples come out, like in the 90's or something. he notes CoB, AFTER AC, so that logic is booted out the window. this is after all the sequels of FFVII up to this point, so we have all the info on all the cast possible, and yet people are still asking does cloud love aerith when it was already "intended" for S/E. i guess they are terrible at making clerith obvious, right? shame on you, S/E!

secondly...hold on...did he just say if it wasnt for aerith muffing everything up there wouldnt a doubt in your mind what would have happened under the highwind?? in other words.....cleriths are straight up DENYING what happened?

would you just stop. stop trying to stretch what isnt there. the point of that quote was taking out the extremeness of the HINTS, NOT the subject. in fact, the quote proves that everyone agreed on the subject. and with open arms. it was HOW it was displayed that was debated. sex wasnt even hesitated in the conversation at all. even if it WAS taken out (and it wasnt) the fact someone would suggest such a thing would mean that S/E was making cloti as they spoke. who in their right mind would talk about "how about tifa and vincent sleeping with each other on the last day guys?" it wouldnt make sense at all. cloud and tifa slept with each other. its obvious, clear, and its not a "weird theory" like you said before. the suggestions of otherwise are silly. what ELSE would they have done? what else after tifa said that line, what would they have done? i literally cannot think of one thing else of what they would have done. even if there was another suggestion, its not right.

Cloti is not canon.

yes it is.

Nojima called Cloud AERITH'S lover.

no he didnt. you STILL havent provided links or proof of it. otherwise...shh.

Ah, well of course they're not physically together. But that's the beauty in these type of romances. They still love each other despite that. They might move on in a sense but their true love is is still the person they lost. When people say "meant to be together" they mean feelings wise. As long as the two people wanted to be together that's what matters. Rose moved on cuz Jack asked her to, she's also reunited in heaven with Jack at the end of the film... so they are "meant to be"... just because something kept them apart doesn't mean they don't truly love on another.

yeah, isnt it soooo romantic? zack is with his only true love and aerith cheating on him with an alive man when shes DEAD?

But Cloud & Aerith were meant to be together, Square even made another character predict their wedding and say they were perfect for each other...

maybe you need this picture to spark that ol memory of yours.

View attachment 3084

on top of that, Nomura has said Aerith's soul lives on in Cloud's soul, making them soul mates. So, again, just cuz something came between them physically (death) does not mean that they do not love each other. Whether they can be together in the living world doesn't stop love, especially in a fantasy game.

maybe you should read/watch twilight. they have that type of mary sue couples you like.

And Tifa is not mature, dependable, or responsible. She left a four year old child in a bar while Midgar was going to hell in a shit basket

and barret didnt argue. so hes a bad father? really? thats what you have to say?

tifa took care of a broken family FOR YEARS with no complaints. cloud told her that she was strong TO HER FACE (while blushing....omg what does that mean?). her profile said that she is a devoted supporter of cloud. oh but shes an immature id'jit right? i understand you thinking tifa isnt right for cloud, but to go and deny her of her personality JUST to have clerith? you act like you HATE tifa. i dont hate aerith. in fact i admire and love her a lot. but i dont put her down and deny her of what she is.

Okay, first off--PLEASE separate your paragraphs better. Please, it's very hard to follow when there are giant walls of text like that. No offense.

you curse like a sailor, which i find extremely offensive, and post up annoying GIFs only you care about but i dont complain.

Also, I was trying NOT to post in here because I'm trying this thing where I don't completely tear down people's ships....

i dont "ship". i dont understand this "ship" idea. i just support them.

provide videos and quotes WITH LINKS and maybe clerith can even be considered.

 

[Cardinal Copia]

I've always been more of a supporter of Clerith if I had to choose one. It just seemed like to me that Cloud cared about Aeris alot more than he did for Tifa. Not saying he didn't care for Tifa, but it seemed like there was something more there with Aeris. Them 2 saving each other, being her body guard, the date in the Golden Saucer, how torn up he was when Sephy stabbed her, reaching for her hand in the North Cave. It just feels like he had feelings for her in terms of a relationship.
And I absolutely adore Aeris too <3 I dont care what anybody says otherwise, thats my belief and I'm sticking to it

 

[Harlequin]

and i mean, yes, he TOTALLY didnt give anything about her when he TOLD AERITH TO GO HOME SO HE COULD SAVE TIFA. when HE told barret to take care of tifa when he had no need to. when HE stayed because barret motivated him of the promise. i mean, phfft. yeah.

But in your own estimation didn't some of this take place before he was the real Cloud?

I don't know what I'm thinking getting involved in all this but to me both girls were romantically involved with Cloud. This is how I saw it:

- Cloud reunites with Tifa after childhood romance
- Meets Aeris who has a profound impression on him
- Endeavours to save Tifa from the Honeybee Inn because he cares about her
- Endeavours to save Aeris from Shinra HQ because he cares about her
- Goes on date with Aeris or Tifa (or neither), player picks their poison
- Tries to save Aeris in the Forgotten City, distraught at her tragic death because of romantic feelings they shared
- Cloud is incapacitated at Mideel, Tifa stays with him because she cares about him, helps him regain his identity
- Rest of the game he longs romantically for Aeris and bonds romantically with Tifa

That's how it looks to me anyway from having played the game these events actually took place in. What happens in game is fact not something vague a former graphics designer says like "Cloud wore pink socks once" which only serves to fuel the eternal interest in the topic.

I like Tifa and I like Aeris. Cloud meets a girl he liked from his past and slowly redevelops feelings for her. He meets another nice girl and complications immediately arise. I don't need "proof" to understand it.