What? Who is religion?
What evidence are we talking about?
Slippery slope.
Why is that? What other purpose would they have?
Do you believe in God?
- Thread starter Darkblade
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Is that the best you can do?
Listless.
Religion is exactly that any organised group that Worships a central deity.
Evidence?
I dont expect you to recognize it even if I were to present it.
Thats not saying your stupid, but unable to recognize a truth contrary to your beliefs is a more polite way to state it.
Its not so slippery a slope when you question the relevance of religion and the effectiveness of praying to no end in the modern world, the blatant use of religious icons in silly self promoting ways such as the use statues with fake blood on them to incite faith or holding pieces of cloth in such reverence and for what? What do they do for you? They inspire faith, in falsehood.
Thats just my opinion Czen, I think the events that created life on this world are a repeating process through out the universe and if this is ac organic circumstance or the event of some "creator" it does not necessarily result in it/him/her wanting to be worshipped, from my POV any being capable of doing such a thing is not in need of pointless worship & praying they have a higher calling.
Ask your self this if you were god would you want a people to Pray to you?
and why would you want it? enter that space and tell me what it is you would seek?
Or dont the choice is yours.
Listless.
Religion is exactly that any organised group that Worships a central deity.
Evidence?
I dont expect you to recognize it even if I were to present it.
Thats not saying your stupid, but unable to recognize a truth contrary to your beliefs is a more polite way to state it.
Its not so slippery a slope when you question the relevance of religion and the effectiveness of praying to no end in the modern world, the blatant use of religious icons in silly self promoting ways such as the use statues with fake blood on them to incite faith or holding pieces of cloth in such reverence and for what? What do they do for you? They inspire faith, in falsehood.
Thats just my opinion Czen, I think the events that created life on this world are a repeating process through out the universe and if this is ac organic circumstance or the event of some "creator" it does not necessarily result in it/him/her wanting to be worshipped, from my POV any being capable of doing such a thing is not in need of pointless worship & praying they have a higher calling.
Ask your self this if you were god would you want a people to Pray to you?
and why would you want it? enter that space and tell me what it is you would seek?
Or dont the choice is yours.
As far as you're concerned, exactly. You can't even be bothered to acknowledge the distinction so why should I as a Christian (not Catholic) take your input seriously now?
Science operates as a medium in which humans quantify the natural world. Religion is a concept used as a form of worship. How you've managed to deduce that the two are opposites based on that very simple definition is beyond me. How would you define the two?
I agree that the basic concepts are the same and for a large portion of my life I thought Science was providing facts, but in their truest form facts aren't actually dicernable by man. For all I know this could be a dream I'm living, I could be someone else. Seeing as I don't know that this reality is false, I can't know it to be true. Do you see what I mean?
Which is a medium. I don't mean to belittle Science, I have as much faith in it as I do in religion but that's all it is: faith.
Yes and No.
Whilst I do believe that it is based on a very specific structure, it deals with the concepts that I've explained in this thread and the one I linked earlier. That evidence cannot be presented by a human and can only be presented by a being with the scope of infinity. A being who would know what is beyond. Jesus Christ for example.
But we do lack the ability. Zzyzx presented a very good example here:
Truth is infinity, an absolute. The slightest form of ignorance is impossible, for if you didn't know everything you would know nothing.
I believe in a higher power than myself, who created us in its image. I don't necessarily believe this is a perfect being. It can experience anger, sadness and euphoria just like the rest of us. However, I also believe it loves us as a parent would. I don't necessarily believe in any one set religion. I believe in some things from the many religions in the world, and disagree with others.
Regardless, this presence, in my opinion, is a loving, compassionate being who wishes for our wellbeing and safety. That's all I need to know, really.
Regardless, this presence, in my opinion, is a loving, compassionate being who wishes for our wellbeing and safety. That's all I need to know, really.
Well, you've given me a lot of rhetoric. Basically you seem not to understand some religious concepts very well.
For example, there are a lot of views on the comparison of man to God. We haven't agreed on just how different man's thinking and God's thinking are, and that might take ages.
I'm not your typical Christian myself. I'd probably disagree with a Christian almost as much as an atheist. Personally I think that it makes sense that God exists, one of the reasons being that the main argument I usually see against it is the "there is no proof of God" statement and it's usually based on someone thinking that all Christians are creationists or something like that.
Well clearly you've taken it seriously enough. As I've said, there is ultimately little difference between christian denominations, the organisation structure is different, there may be wee bits of revision here and there, they are ultimately the same faith. I'm sorry, but that just sounds like a cop out to me. The Catholic church represents Christianity as much as a Protestant or Eastern Orthodox church, if not more considering it is by far the largest in every way shape and size.
Trust me, this isn't a dream you're living, this is reality. Keep your feet on the ground
I personally have no faith in religion, partly because of its conduct, partly because I cannot bring myself to believe in its ideals, concepts, or the idea of God which is what religion ultimately is about. Jesus Christ, if he existed, was a man, therefore he was capable of knowing no more or less than the average human.
As far as that quote goes, the numbers example, numbers are a man made concept, however, they are effective and they work. Its a decent argument to say that one thing is only true when there is something the opposite to reference it by, however, that is part and parcel of science. We do not know everything in existence, it does not in any way mean we cannot know everything in existence, particularly when humans will continue to evolve and understand as it has done over the past 200,000 years. Science puts emphasis on patterns and deducts meaning in various forms, I don't see religion doing the same thing; the bible is what it is, a man made book used to control humanity. That is what it is done throughout history, and it is undeniable. Religion and science will always be polar opposites, as far as something like evolution is concerned, religion has tried to make sense of the purpose of our existence - science does not, as there is no grand plan or purpose, we simply are the way we are, and will eventually change some way or another.
Also I find it incredibly vain to believe that even if there was a higher power, that they created us in an image of itself.
王 Yoshida
King Of Asians
I believe in Yuna ,wich mean in Japanese Dawn,and i believe ,Jesus will come back ,at the dawn of the night take his children and wait fer the 1000 years tribulation,and then destroy the devil,and then live fer eternity !
Like I said earlier, it's purely theoretical that humans or anything have been around that long. I'm telling you, you won't find any proof. It's something that I actually hate about people who hold so firmly to the concept. It's just as blind as any theology.
It's funny how a theory read in a science book can somehow transform into truth.
I believe in evolution, but the idea of it stretching for the past 100s of millions of years is just, well,, I dunno, you'd have to be pretty dumb to just accept it without some sort of recourse. And believe me, if you study on it, you'll see what I'm saying. It's got more holes than any holy book.
And also, do you really think God put everything in the universe 'brand new' ?
Given the instability of science though, I don't think we need to go to those extremes_
And I'm not bashing you or anything, but I gave a really good explanation earlier on the debate. How can you deny it without some kind of backing? What 'fact' is backing up your proclaimed 'fact'?
Religious people are no more in 'denial' than scientists, obviously.
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Ayen
White Mage
I've believed in God for years and years. Ultimately there was a time where I began to doubt and question my beliefs, and through all those doubts, questions and a time where I seriously considered becoming an Atheist I found myself back at the same place and my faith restored. I couldn't imagine myself with any other beliefs system.
As for who created God, this may have been said before not sure because I honestly couldn't read 40+ pages of thread, but IMO nobody did. God existed outside of time and space and therefore has no beginning or end. Otherwise you find yourself in an endless loop here.
As for who created God, this may have been said before not sure because I honestly couldn't read 40+ pages of thread, but IMO nobody did. God existed outside of time and space and therefore has no beginning or end. Otherwise you find yourself in an endless loop here.
I believe that the Divine does exist. However, the Divine is too vast for us to know, and thus comes to us all in different names, or identities. There are many Gods and Goddesses, but all are merely different Personas of the Divine. many of the world religions have overlapping guidelines in their commandments, laws, etc. Whether intentional or not, to me this proves that there are certain divine laws that are universal. Humans merely interpret them differently. Quite frankly I think that the way things exist as they do cannot be due to a freak accident. Life flows because of balance, and this is proven in the anatomy of living beings. Anytime something in a person or animal's body is out of balance, they get sick or die. For example, the blood pH rests around 6.5-7.5. Anything outside of this range puts our health in grave danger.
Our bodies are not made to last forever, even though many of us wish they could (myself included), but our souls do. Overpopulation would be one reason why our genetics are made to eventually break down.
I also believe that creation and evolution go hand in hand. Something cannot be created out of nothing without something being there. The Divine gave us our start. As we evolved in technology and medicine, as we migrated to different lands, we evolved as a people, be it for better or worse.
As for me, I follow the Gods and Goddesses of Egypt, with a special kinship with Sekhmet, the Goddess of healing, Punisher of the wicked, and Lioness that defends during war.For all everyone can say about whether religion is real or not, what matters in the end is what we ourselves as individuals believe, what it is that makes us happy. In the end, our bodies will die, and it is in death that we all will find out the answer to the God question.
Our bodies are not made to last forever, even though many of us wish they could (myself included), but our souls do. Overpopulation would be one reason why our genetics are made to eventually break down.
I also believe that creation and evolution go hand in hand. Something cannot be created out of nothing without something being there. The Divine gave us our start. As we evolved in technology and medicine, as we migrated to different lands, we evolved as a people, be it for better or worse.
As for me, I follow the Gods and Goddesses of Egypt, with a special kinship with Sekhmet, the Goddess of healing, Punisher of the wicked, and Lioness that defends during war.For all everyone can say about whether religion is real or not, what matters in the end is what we ourselves as individuals believe, what it is that makes us happy. In the end, our bodies will die, and it is in death that we all will find out the answer to the God question.
Connman14
Current Game Playing- FFX, Future game playing- AL
I don't know... I was raised in a devout Lutheran household yet recently I've been finding myself drifting away from religion. I believe in some form of higher power but I know nothing about it. I rant and rave to my family but they just give the usual devout Christian family response "You're in a phase" "You shouldn't ask those questions" "You'll refind Jesus" but I'm starting to think that the classical Christian God can't exist. (Insert Problem of Evil argument here) (Damn Philosophy class)
I will make this short and sweet as well. I do not follow organize religion. I am an augnostic and not an athiest. One denys exhistance of god and the other denys the ability to prove so he/she doesnt follow it. I belive there is a higher power that is behind the workings of thing however. To me the big bang theory sounds just as stupid as an idea of god. For particle to collide into each other to trigger the creation of the universe that would mean there would need to be a space for them to collide and a way that they exist in the first place. I believe when it comes to talk about creation one needs just as much faith to believe in science as you would religion.
RapidBlaze
The Backup Guy
I believe there is a God. There is always a creator for everything. Even atheists believe there is a God, otherwise why would they deny it?
To finish off, here is something I heard a while go...
'If there is no God, Heaven, afterlife, then what do we live for?'
To finish off, here is something I heard a while go...
'If there is no God, Heaven, afterlife, then what do we live for?'
Jquestionmark
Untitled
Assuming we mean the Christian God, I don't believe in him a single ounce. The Bible provides no reliable evidence of anything, especially a deity (if it was accurate, though, I'd worry for man with such an arbitrary, cruel, and vengeful creature on the loose). Religious experience (such as from the potentially crazy St. Teresa) has been shown from some fun experiments in the 70s with LSD to be as reliable as... well... LSD. There's no support for a monotheistic God of any sort that I can find.
SangueLuna
Blood Moon
We deny it because our ancient ancestors states there is a "God", we refuse to believe it. Denying it means we never believed it ever existed. Mankind (before the age of Science) created the idea to explain life and to find some principal for it. Atheist believe there was never a God or creator. To say there is one because we deny it is not very logical concept but it is your opinion. It just makes no sense to me.
I don't believe in a God and I have no reason too.
I believe in Him.
(as a Christian) Here's what I think about evidence and whatnot, of there being God. xD
Anyway, as Ayen said, no one created God. God created everything. The universe, the plants, the stars -- everything. He has the power to do so. He created everything on this planet. He created how one thing on this planet effected another and so forth.
(as a Christian) Here's what I think about evidence and whatnot, of there being God. xD
There is some evidence of God's touch on the people of Earth if one looked at written word (which to others, may or may not be "real" or actual evidence). God's Son has done many miracles.
1: Jesus' Birth from a virgin woman?
2: How did Jesus turn water into Wine (Koine, which may or may not have been an alcoholic)?
3:How did Jesus predict who (didn't mention a name though) and when, someone (he said a person among his Disciples) would betray him? (Well for this and the next, we can only go by recorded tablets of him doing this, so sorta scratch this out)
4: Or when Jesus healed a man's cut off ear because one of his apostles cut it straight off to save him from Judas' (one of his apostles) betrayal?
1: Jesus' Birth from a virgin woman?
2: How did Jesus turn water into Wine (Koine, which may or may not have been an alcoholic)?
3:How did Jesus predict who (didn't mention a name though) and when, someone (he said a person among his Disciples) would betray him? (Well for this and the next, we can only go by recorded tablets of him doing this, so sorta scratch this out)
4: Or when Jesus healed a man's cut off ear because one of his apostles cut it straight off to save him from Judas' (one of his apostles) betrayal?
Anyway, as Ayen said, no one created God. God created everything. The universe, the plants, the stars -- everything. He has the power to do so. He created everything on this planet. He created how one thing on this planet effected another and so forth.
I'm Christian (Lutheran) and I believe in God. I was raised Lutheran and because I was does not mean I was "trained" that way or have been unable to open my eyes to see any other way but Christianity in my life. My belief is that he chose me because he loves me.
People are so obsessed nowadays and have this "If I can't see it then I can't possibly believe it" attitude and its really quite sickening to me. Its always about proof. Proof proof proof. You love your family...your brothers, your sisters...grandparents. You may come across a spouse that you love someday...a husband or a wife. You love them and you can show your love for them by buying them things, kissing them, hugging them, or telling them. Love in itself is a feeling that is emotional and from the heart...something that cannot be seen or touched. ...and such is God's love. You cannot put a finger on it or touch it, it is just simply there.
But, God did show his love for us by giving us his only son to die an excruciating and humiliating death on the cross to save us from our sins and give us eternal life as believers. He also gave us proof in the bible...it is our choice whether we read it or not. He also gave us a beautiful Earth to live on...the mountains, the green valleys, and the beaches. He put forth the beautiful sky that we gaze upon each night...and the sun and the moon to give us night and day. He also crafted our earthly bodies which if you think of it even for the slightest moment...are absolutely amazing in their abilities.
I revolt at the thought of all of this being sheer coincidence. We are not here "just because" and the thought of us evolving from monkeys is very laughable to say the least.
However he gave us choices in life and we choose to do with them what we choose to do with them. You can choose to believe or you can choose not to believe.
Finally, if you are Christian I thought this was a very pretty verse and I thought I'd share it with you if you care to read it...although you might have heard it before:
http://www.knowjesus.com/Encourage_love.shtml
People are so obsessed nowadays and have this "If I can't see it then I can't possibly believe it" attitude and its really quite sickening to me. Its always about proof. Proof proof proof. You love your family...your brothers, your sisters...grandparents. You may come across a spouse that you love someday...a husband or a wife. You love them and you can show your love for them by buying them things, kissing them, hugging them, or telling them. Love in itself is a feeling that is emotional and from the heart...something that cannot be seen or touched. ...and such is God's love. You cannot put a finger on it or touch it, it is just simply there.
But, God did show his love for us by giving us his only son to die an excruciating and humiliating death on the cross to save us from our sins and give us eternal life as believers. He also gave us proof in the bible...it is our choice whether we read it or not. He also gave us a beautiful Earth to live on...the mountains, the green valleys, and the beaches. He put forth the beautiful sky that we gaze upon each night...and the sun and the moon to give us night and day. He also crafted our earthly bodies which if you think of it even for the slightest moment...are absolutely amazing in their abilities.
I revolt at the thought of all of this being sheer coincidence. We are not here "just because" and the thought of us evolving from monkeys is very laughable to say the least.
However he gave us choices in life and we choose to do with them what we choose to do with them. You can choose to believe or you can choose not to believe.
Finally, if you are Christian I thought this was a very pretty verse and I thought I'd share it with you if you care to read it...although you might have heard it before:
http://www.knowjesus.com/Encourage_love.shtml
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I harbour some occasional doubt towards whether or not God does exist, but I don't profess actual atheism either, which makes me an agnostic. I embrace the many merits of discovery that science has provided for us - such as the Darwinian theory, which isn't necessarily something synonymous with atheism - but I don't fully hold every bit of it to heart at all. I do usually think that there is some supernatural presence that we can't necessarily hope to uncover during our lifetime. As far as I'm concerned, we as a species can hope to try and discover as many things as we can, but we can never really discover everything, nor are we really supposed to.
I look at the creation of ourselves, the planet, the whole universe - there's only so much science can attempt to tell us things and like I said before, I probably don't even take everything to heart. What is there to say that everything was created out of coincidence? There isn't. It's just theory. You may want to believe entirely that we are all here now purely because of coincidence, that's fine. You may want to believe that God created it all. That's fine as well. No one should be bashed for having their own ideas and beliefs as we all have autonomy.
I look at the creation of ourselves, the planet, the whole universe - there's only so much science can attempt to tell us things and like I said before, I probably don't even take everything to heart. What is there to say that everything was created out of coincidence? There isn't. It's just theory. You may want to believe entirely that we are all here now purely because of coincidence, that's fine. You may want to believe that God created it all. That's fine as well. No one should be bashed for having their own ideas and beliefs as we all have autonomy.
Emyunoxious
My penis is massive
No.
There is no reason to believe in a God.
There is no evidence Jesus ever existed.
There is no evidence anything supernatural has ever happened, ever.
We live in a natural world.
There is no reason to believe in a God.
There is no evidence Jesus ever existed.
There is no evidence anything supernatural has ever happened, ever.
We live in a natural world.
That's not actually true. There is a plethora of evidence that supports the evidence of Jesus as a historical figure, from a variety of sources. It's not enough to definitively prove his existence, but I think it's enough to say that he most likely did exist as a historical figure. Of course, his divinity is another issue entirely.