Homosexual marriage - do you agree?

[Kannon]

Being a Christian I'm against homosexual marriages under a church roof. If they want to get married at the courthouse for political purposes (taxes, etc) fine, in my eyes that isn't a religious marriage, and I don't care. As I said in another post, what people do in their life is their own business, although I won't support gay marriage in a church.

 

[Aleksunder]

I support homosexual marriage any which way. This has probably been stated, but the Bible even has a passage somewhere (I read it, I can dig it up if need be) that details two men sharing a love that no woman could ever share with a man, or something to that extent, and has been widely viewed as a homo erotic relationship between two males, in the Bible, and not condemned by anyone.

So, the religious reasons pertaining to gay marriage not being favored in churches/not being favored at all is moot. It is also moot because when the Bible was written, they wanted to keep the population going, and a purely sexual relationship that didn't yield any offspring was frowned upon because people needed to be making babies.

Those who disagree with gay marriage, and are in a committed relationship, ask yourselves this: You are married to the person you are with. You love them, yadda yadda yadda. Suppose some force struck you down and made you the same gender as them. Would you love them any less? Would you want to marry them any less? If my lover was a female, I'd still want to marry her (him ). This type of debate opens up a lot of other threads, such as, what do you consider moral?
Are morals even shaped by the people anymore?
How much do you love?
What do you consider love?
How strong is your Faith...do you have Faith?

It's like opening a can of worms.

 

[L]

Why stop them? Not like it's any different from normal marrige. It's not like they're coming to rape you. I think it's a stupid idea to try and ban gay marrige. I mean, How many of us believe that if someone makes you happy, no matter what the circumstances, then why shouldn't you be able to be married? I'm atheist, I threw that christianity out the window sometime ago. If you love someone then why shouldn't you be able to get married?

 

[Misty]

It shouldn't matter whether you are gay or not. You should be married in a Church regardless of sexuality. If you are true to yourselves and God if you are a believer, then, why does prejudice still exist in the Church today? Is it because homosexual couples cannot produce children naturally?

Maybe one day I will create a religion, where you can marry who you want regardless of sexuality..but no, I shouldn't be doing that. I would like to see a change in the Church laws. That won't be happening anytime soon..

 

[DarkSquall]

I'm 100& against it.

 

[L]

I'm 100& against it.

I think you meant 100%

Besides, why don't you at least post why you're against it. This is a serious conversation. Just saying "because" gives us no reason believe your side of the topic we're talking about.

 

[Tristis Miles]

Homosexual marriage?, No I don't agreed at all, with homosexuality and much less with them getting mariage. The way I see it whole point of marriage is to have kids (of your own) a heterosexual copuple for example could be sexualy active, but if they want to have kids (as a consient desition) they would have to marriage.

One other thing I disagree about same-sex marriage is well "the kids", image a kid that grows up under such a parenting, that is no way good for them.

Then what, may I ask, about those who marry and do not have children? I'm rather disappointed that marriage is viewed as a sex ticket, but alright, that's your opinion. Aside from that, hell, I don't have the facts on it but know relatively well that people don't wait for marriage to have sex.

How is growing up with two parents of the same sex "in no way good for them"? I beg to differ (my reasonings will be posted after yours.)

 

[QuickSilverD]

^^^ What's the point of getting married if you're not having kids, unless your planning to have them later of at least eventually. (Regarding heterosexual couples that do not have childrens and are not planning to) the sole purpose of marriage is that, you don't need to get married to have sex or live together with the people you love (another reason for what I am against this gay marriage thing)


Regarding the "growing up with two parents of the same sex is not good for kids" I'll just say that this way the kid get all the wrong ideas about the genders and gender roles (whenever you like it or not men and women are different) but if you let's say are a boy a grow up with two male gay parents you will think that "homosexuality" is as natural as "heterosexuality"

What are the odds that this boy ends up being gay himself, I'll say a lot more than if he would have grow up with normal parents. How this is wrong? if you can't see what's wrong with this then you probably think that everyone should be gay, and you know what happens if everyone would be gay... well... no more existence for our humanity

 

[Misty]

^^^ What's the point of getting married if you're not having kids, unless your planning to have them later of at least eventually. (Regarding heterosexual couples that do not have childrens and are not planning to) the sole purpose of marriage is that, you don't need to get married to have sex or live together with the people you love (another reason for what I am against this gay marriage thing)

Have you ever taken into consideration the people that cannot physically have children as well? Or do they do not deserve marriage because they can't reproduce?

Ah, you also say you don't need to get married just to be with someone you love? Let's scrap marriage altogether then.

You know what? I also might like to add that even if you do have kids and are not married, it isn't the end of the world. My mother raised me for half of my life on her own, and I came out perfect. Well..perfect..haha..debatable.

Regarding the "growing up with two parents of the same sex is not good for kids" I'll just say that this way the kid get all the wrong ideas about the genders and gender roles (whenever you like it or not men and women are different) but if you let's say are a boy a grow up with two male gay parents you will think that "homosexuality" is as natural as "heterosexuality"

It is part of life! There have even been recordings of homosexual activities between animals! You seem to think that there is nothing positive about a homosexual relationship, that everything is going to be so tremendously different for them. No, you don't know that. For all you know, a child being brought up by homosexual parents may have a perfectly fine upbringing - they don't just have to have straight parents to find out what a so called "natural" relationship is all about. There is the outside world, there are many different ways they can learn about heterosexual relationships. In a way, having homosexual parents teaches a child about acceptance, and how to love someone regardless of their sexuality.

This world has enough problems with births as it is, so I don't see the panic over gay couples. As you know, a lot of people are against homosexuality, so, humanity as we know it isn't going into any sort of rapid decrease of the number of humans being brought into this world.

What are the odds that this boy ends up being gay himself, I'll say a lot more than if he would have grow up with normal parents. How this is wrong? if you can't see what's wrong with this then you probably think that everyone should be gay, and you know what happens if everyone would be gay... well... no more existence for our humanity

Oh you are getting worked up for no reason dear. So we should all just admit it's "wrong?" for the sake of humanity? We should all be prejudiced and not let gay couples look after children for the fear they may turn gay?

I am not prejudiced. You do not know the odds for every child, You cannot predict the outcome. Your outlook is incredibly cruel. So now they are not "normal", because of who they choose to love. These people are just like us, only one little thing seperates us. Sometimes, you cannot help with who you fall in love with.

I'm not going to decide who should be with whom, what sexuality path is right, what we should stop "certain" people from having, because everyone has a right to what they want.

One more thing..since when are all heterosexual families perfect? Hm? There are a lot of bad things happening today - affairs, parents who couldnt care less about their own kids making trouble - hey, remember domestic violence? That's more of an issue today then it ever was.

So let's not suddenly assume that all heterosexual couple/families/partners whatever is "better", more "normal" then that of a homosexual nature

Arg, I know people are entitled to their opinions..but I feel so strongly about this issue when homosexuals are apparently "not normal". Maybe you should wonder why homosexuality was around in the first place? If you believe in God..then you'll know he gave us free will. He gave us the ability to do anything we wanted to.

 

[Tristis Miles]

^^^ What's the point of getting married if you're not having kids, unless your planning to have them later of at least eventually. (Regarding heterosexual couples that do not have childrens and are not planning to) the sole purpose of marriage is that, you don't need to get married to have sex or live together with the people you love (another reason for what I am against this gay marriage thing)

The 'point' in getting married? That varies from person to person, though for me I'd say because it's one of the best ways to say "we're a team" (basically.) One is making a strong bond to another; taking a step to being closer; being there and being supportive, having someone by your side through thick and thin and pledging your devotion to them before yourself. Marriage, to me, is a whole new level of a relationship that bases itself not in the physical, but the mental and emotional aspects of life. Reproducing then, is a separate step altogether: a choice you and your partner make. Hopefully that decision is made after the mental/emotional bond, but we're aware that doesn't always happen.

True, you don't have to get married to live with the person you love, but what is the harm in doing so? Why deny the right of a gay person to say to another "we're a team" ?

Regarding the "growing up with two parents of the same sex is not good for kids" I'll just say that this way the kid get all the wrong ideas about the genders and gender roles (whenever you like it or not men and women are different) but if you let's say are a boy a grow up with two male gay parents you will think that "homosexuality" is as natural as "heterosexuality"

*shakes head* You're commonly confusing two terms here: sex and gender. No big deal, a lot of people do - so let me point this out. "Sex" regards which reproductive organs one possesses, "gender" regards the inner sense of masculinity and femininity. Everyone has their own unique combination of both masculine and feminine characteristics - they help define one's personality.

You can't just shove everyone into the common stereotypes, such that 'males are violent beings who stare at girls, obsess over cars, and enjoy chugging beer' or 'females giggle/talk excessively, obsess over shopping, and enjoy manicures/spas.' Because there's a mix, it opens the window to a huge variety of people, including masculine females, feminine males, 'cross dressers,' 'drag kings and queens' ... the transgender community. There aren't just two categories of men and women in this world, it's far from a black/white concept: in fact, it's very rare if not nonexistent to have pure black/white characteristics (to be 100% male or 100% female.) The shades of gray dominate.

So why does all this matter? Because a child will grow up to become the way they are because of what they're taught and how they're taught it - not because both of their parents have penises or clitorides. Masculinity and femininity -- gender -- is what is expressed.

I grew up with heterosexual parents, and believe homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality, thereby disproving your last sentence there.

What are the odds that this boy ends up being gay himself, I'll say a lot more than if he would have grow up with normal parents. How this is wrong? if you can't see what's wrong with this then you probably think that everyone should be gay, and you know what happens if everyone would be gay... well... no more existence for our humanity

First off, when you say 'normal parents', I can honestly say I personally feel the need to punch you. Unless you can define the term "normal" and explain why homosexual people "aren't normal", I'll continue to feel that way. Why? Because "normal" can't universally be defined - it's an opinion and confused with "what society has in domination at this point in time." The odds of the child becoming gay or lesbian themselves is just the same as if they were brought up by 'straight' parents. I fail to see why people find it different when the shoe is on the other foot: heterosexuals may raise hetero- or homo- sexuals, homosexuals may raise hetero- or homo- sexuals as well. It's not as if a heterosexual parentage increases the probability of a heterosexual child -- look around you at the population of homosexuals. It's simply the outcome of natural birth - sexuality not a personal choice but a biological one.

(No offense meant, I just got
rubbed the wrong way when you
attacked the homosexual
population. I share Lisa's views.)

I don't believe everyone 'should' be gay, rather, everyone should have the right and freedom to be gay (or lesbian.) Theirs and our sexuality is a part of who we are, there is no reason to grant some people freedom of expression and not others. I think too that it's safe to say there will always be a mix of hetero- and homo-sexual peoples, so there's no need to think a zillion years into the future to say 'oh dear, end-of-human-race = homosexuality!' People of both sexual orientations are being born every moment, and nature has a way of balancing itself out.
​

 

[QuickSilverD]

Lisa, Tristis, I am going to be the first one to admit that “marriage” has been devaluated over the last century, with so many people making silly mistakes because they are young and dull and with Divorce now such a common legal action, but let’s not forget what Marriage is, as you seem to have a wrong idea of it

“Marriage is a socially, religiously, or legally recognized union, usually of a man and a woman, for the purposes of: the formation of a family unit; legitimizing sexual relations and procreation; social stability; education and development of offspring; economic stability; security; companionship; or various combinations of these purposes.”

Marriage is “sacred”, created for the sole purpose of uniting a man and a woman for them to reproduce and love each other.

Have you ever taken into consideration the people that cannot physically have children as well? Or do they do not deserve marriage because they can't reproduce?

It is in this case is when it is ok to adopt children that don’t have parents

Ah, you also say you don't need to get married just to be with someone you love? Let's scrap marriage altogether then.

You know what? I also might like to add that even if you do have kids and are not married, it isn't the end of the world. My mother raised me for half of my life on her own, and I came out perfect. Well..perfect..haha..debatable.

But wouldn’t it have been easier for your mother to raise you with a loving man with her, a man who would love her and help her financially, not saying that single mothers can’t do it, just saying it is easier with help.

It is part of life! There have even been recordings of homosexual activities between animals! You seem to think that there is nothing positive about a homosexual relationship, that everything is going to be so tremendously different for them. No, you don't know that. For all you know, a child being brought up by homosexual parents may have a perfectly fine upbringing - they don't just have to have straight parents to find out what a so called "natural" relationship is all about. There is the outside world, there are many different ways they can learn about heterosexual relationships. In a way, having homosexual parents teaches a child about acceptance, and how to love someone regardless of their sexuality.

Oh yes it is part of life, but what isn’t part of life? Everything that happens around you is within your life; then it is part of your life, but so is death, pain, murder and suffering and injustice and why do I use those horrible examples? Simple to show you that only because something is part of life it doesn’t have to be “good” it can be bad as well << and yes with this I’m implying that being gay is a bad thing but I think that was clear since my first post.

By the way, what is positive about homosexual relationships?

This world has enough problems with births as it is, so I don't see the panic over gay couples. As you know, a lot of people are against homosexuality, so, humanity as we know it isn't going into any sort of rapid decrease of the number of humans being brought into this world.

I know that. When I used the example of “if everybody was gay then our beloved humanity would cease to exist” I’m trying to imply that homosexuality is no in any way a good thing and has absolutely no benefits whatsoever. I wasn't really implying that this would/could happen at all.

Oh you are getting worked up for no reason dear. So we should all just admit it's "wrong?" for the sake of humanity? We should all be prejudiced and not let gay couples look after children for the fear they may turn gay?

Yes.

I am not prejudiced. You do not know the odds for every child, You cannot predict the outcome. Your outlook is incredibly cruel. So now they are not "normal", because of who they choose to love. These people are just like us, only one little thing seperates us. Sometimes, you cannot help with who you fall in love with.

I'm not going to decide who should be with whom, what sexuality path is right, what we should stop "certain" people from having, because everyone has a right to what they want.

Uhm, it seems you don’t know what “normal” means, ok I’ll lecture you: normal refers to a lack of significant deviation from the average. And average is the most common factor, so if most people (for the sake of argument let’s say 80%) are heterosexual, then the norm for a person is to like someone of the opposite sex, if you do not follow that rule then you are not normal, because you are not like the most.

One more thing..since when are all heterosexual families perfect? Hm? There are a lot of bad things happening today - affairs, parents who couldnt care less about their own kids making trouble - hey, remember domestic violence? That's more of an issue today then it ever was.

So let's not suddenly assume that all heterosexual couple/families/partners whatever is "better", more "normal" then that of a homosexual nature

And I guess homosexual couples are perfect, and they cannot suffer from any of those troubles?

Arg, I know people are entitled to their opinions..but I feel so strongly about this issue when homosexuals are apparently "not normal". Maybe you should wonder why homosexuality was around in the first place? If you believe in God..then you'll know he gave us free will. He gave us the ability to do anything we wanted to.

I told you about the word normal, and when something is not average then it is not normal, but you seem to believe that I think that gay people are different from us, in another way, I know they can be discrete at times, but you shouldn’t deny that the fact of being homo has a great deal over your personality.

The 'point' in getting married? That varies from person to person, though for me I'd say because it's one of the best ways to say "we're a team" (basically.) One is making a strong bond to another; taking a step to being closer; being there and being supportive, having someone by your side through thick and thin and pledging your devotion to them before yourself. Marriage, to me, is a whole new level of a relationship that bases itself not in the physical, but the mental and emotional aspects of life. Reproducing then, is a separate step altogether: a choice you and your partner make. Hopefully that decision is made after the mental/emotional bond, but we're aware that doesn't always happen.

True, you don't have to get married to live with the person you love, but what is the harm in doing so? Why deny the right of a gay person to say to another "we're a team" ?

I don’t feel like repeating myself so I hope you read what I said about marriage, and what is the harm of letting gay people to get marriage: the kids, the value and moral of society, the standard and now not-so-respected relation between a man and a woman.

*shakes head* You're commonly confusing two terms here: sex and gender. No big deal, a lot of people do - so let me point this out. "Sex" regards which reproductive organs one possesses, "gender" regards the inner sense of masculinity and femininity. Everyone has their own unique combination of both masculine and feminine characteristics - they help define one's personality.

You can't just shove everyone into the common stereotypes, such that 'males are violent beings who stare at girls, obsess over cars, and enjoy chugging beer' or 'females giggle/talk excessively, obsess over shopping, and enjoy manicures/spas.' Because there's a mix, it opens the window to a huge variety of people, including masculine females, feminine males, 'cross dressers,' 'drag kings and queens' ... the transgender community. There aren't just two categories of men and women in this world, it's far from a black/white concept: in fact, it's very rare if not nonexistent to have pure black/white characteristics (to be 100% male or 100% female.) The shades of gray dominate.

So why does all this matter? Because a child will grow up to become the way they are because of what they're taught and how they're taught it - not because both of their parents have penises or clitorides. Masculinity and femininity -- gender -- is what is expressed.

Basically what you are saying is that everyone is a little gay inside?

I grew up with heterosexual parents, and believe homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality, thereby disproving your last sentence there.

…. …. …. Honestly I don’t want to offend you but… that is the stupidest piece of argument that I have read in my entire life, I laughed when I read that part. I think is clear what I think of that argument now.

First off, when you say 'normal parents', I can honestly say I personally feel the need to punch you. Unless you can define the term "normal" and explain why homosexual people "aren't normal", I'll continue to feel that way. Why? Because "normal" can't universally be defined - it's an opinion and confused with "what society has in domination at this point in time."

I don’t like to repeat myself so I hope you read what I said about “what is normal”.

The odds of the child becoming gay or lesbian themselves is just the same as if they were brought up by 'straight' parents. I fail to see why people find it different when the shoe is on the other foot: heterosexuals may raise hetero- or homo- sexuals, homosexuals may raise hetero- or homo- sexuals as well. It's not as if a heterosexual parentage increases the probability of a heterosexual child -- look around you at the population of homosexuals.

Think for a second, would you like your child to be gay? Whould you encourage your child to be gay by telling them that there is nothing wrong with it? I’ll tell you, no heterosexual couple would, even if they said they are in favor of homosexual marriage, homosexual couples by the other hand is a different story, and with those factor in the line I can say without the fear to be wrong that there are more chances for a child to become gay if he or she has gay parents than if he or she would have heterosexual parents

It's simply the outcome of natural birth - sexuality not a personal choice but a biological one.

Sexuality is not a choice, sexual preference is- at least from my point of view, by the way it hasn’t been proven is homosexuality is something you are born with or something you choose subconsciously, so that one is a dangerous subject but I’ll tell you what I think even if you don’t care about it:

I believe that it is a mix of both, some people are born being gay, some others (actually most) get into it by choice, either by their consciousness or sub-consciousness in this case these people were influence by their own doubts and fears not to mention other homosexuals.

I don't believe everyone 'should' be gay, rather, everyone should have the right and freedom to be gay (or lesbian.) Theirs and our sexuality is a part of who we are, there is no reason to grant some people freedom of expression and not others. I think too that it's safe to say there will always be a mix of hetero- and homo-sexual peoples, so there's no need to think a zillion years into the future to say 'oh dear, end-of-human-race = homosexuality!' People of both sexual orientations are being born every moment, and nature has a way of balancing itself out.

And I believe that no one should be gay, -- some may find that offensive but that is my opinion and it probably will not change. And again the “everybody gay= end of humanity” thing was a way to show that there is no benefits at all from gay people

 

[Miaku Kitty]

I believe that it should be legal. Everyone has rights. And I think that saying that they can't marry whomever they want is taking away from those rights. It doesn't hurt anything and it doesn't effect anybody but the people getting married. They are going to be gay either way, so why not just let a person be happy?

 

[QuickSilverD]

I believe that it should be legal. Everyone has rights. And I think that saying that they can't marry whomever they want is taking away from those rights. It doesn't hurt anything and it doesn't effect anybody but the people getting married. They are going to be gay either way, so why not just let a person be happy?

You don't understand do you? is not about their rights, marriage is a big deal, and marriage carries a lot of legal responsability and rights, some of these rights include the adoption of children. and the legality of using artifical forms of reproduction in order to have children.

Read my post that is before yours and you'll know why I believe this is a bad thing

 

[Tristis Miles]

Quoted same text, different emphasis:

“Marriage is a socially, religiously, or legally recognized union, usually of a man and a woman, for the purposes of:the formation of a family unit; legitimizing sexual relations and procreation; social stability; education and development of offspring; economic stability; security; companionship; or various combinations of these purposes.”

Marriage is “sacred”, created for the sole purpose of uniting a man and a woman for them to reproduce and love each other.

The text listed many purposes for marriage and yet you ignored all but the one. "Or" is also a very important word in that piece, as that means marriage doesn't necessarily have to include what you bolded.

Originally Posted by Lisa Liberality
Have you ever taken into consideration the people that cannot physically have children as well? Or do they do not deserve marriage because they can't reproduce?

It is in this case is when it is ok to adopt children that don’t have parents

Homosexuals can't physically have children, so why can't they adopt and it be 'ok' as well?

But wouldn’t it have been easier for your mother to raise you with a loving man with her, a man who would love her and help her financially, not saying that single mothers can’t do it, just saying it is easier with help.

I know this wasn't directed at me, though I must say - how does this even relate to homosexual marriage? Sure it would've been easier, it's always easier with help. Why do you stress a man though? Another woman could be just as helpful, if not, perhaps more helpful as women are generally better with children.

By the way, what is positive about homosexual relationships?[/QUOTE]
The strong bond between two people who love each other. If there's a child involved, they may raise the little one in a comfortable home and provide/take care of them rather than the child being ignored/unattended to in one of the overcrowded and poorly equipped orphanages.

What's positive about heterosexual relationships? The only thing that's different is the capability of reproduction, which seems to be the only reason you strongly oppose homosexual -marriage- (which is confusing, because they're two very different topics.) If so focused on the status of population, consider what the -lack- of homosexuals would do. Orphanages would keep piling up, children would suffer because the staff could not possibly support the needs of these little ones, and yes, die due to this unsatisfied demand. As homosexuals who desire to raise children need to take care of those who are already present, orphanages are obviously the place they go, therefore they're very beneficial to society.

I know that. When I used the example of “if everybody was gay then our beloved humanity would cease to exist” I’m trying to imply that homosexuality is no in any way a good thing and has absolutely no benefits whatsoever. I wasn't really implying that this would/could happen at all.

Bringing up a situation that will never happen is a very weak way to promote your side of the debate.

Uhm, it seems you don’t know what “normal” means, ok I’ll lecture you: normal refers to a lack of significant deviation from the average. And average is the most common factor, so if most people (for the sake of argument let’s say 80%) are heterosexual, then the norm for a person is to like someone of the opposite sex, if you do not follow that rule then you are not normal, because you are not like the most.

You just said normal = majority. I can now put the "If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you too?" quote on you. "Normal" or "majority" doesn't mean it's right.

And I guess homosexual couples are perfect, and they cannot suffer from any of those troubles?

Who said this? Lisa and I certainly did not. We're not saying homosexual couples are perfect, we're asking that you not stereotype an entire group of people and make assumptions.

but you shouldn’t deny that the fact of being homo has a great deal over your personality.

That depends on who you meet. Some homosexuals let their sexuality shine like the sun, others you can't even tell. Likewise, heterosexuals can be excessively obvious or just "whatever." Sexual orientation affects your personality, yes. That means heterosexuality too, but as you are such, you haven't analyzed how you yourself are affected, I think. It's a two-way street.

now not-so-respected relation between a man and a woman.

I'm slightly confused here, can you please clarify? What do you mean by that? The way I took it, you're saying that homosexuals have somehow degraded the relationship between a man and a woman. That's not true at all. What's happened is simply a new orientation becoming more open: 'sharing the spotlight,' if you will, and requesting to be respected as the heterosexual couple have been.

Basically what you are saying is that everyone is a little gay inside?

o_o That's an odd conclusion lol. Not what I meant at all, QuickSilverD. You said that by growing up with homosexual parents, the child will get all the wrong ideas about gender and gender roles. I basically responded that one's sex does not determine one's gender - in fact, for some people these two differ (a biological male who has a feminine gender, a biological female who has a male gender.) What the child learns is gender expression - it has no basis on sexual parts. Therefore, a homosexual or heterosexual upbringing has little to no difference in the outcome of the child (they won't 'get the wrong ideas' about gender roles.) The only area where it'd be foggy is if say, the boy had questions about sex though had two women as parents, or the girl with two men as parents. This case is simply solved by other members in the family though: so it's not really an issue.

…. …. …. Honestly I don’t want to offend you but… that is the stupidest piece of argument that I have read in my entire life, I laughed when I read that part. I think is clear what I think of that argument now.

*chuckles* Exactly what I thought when I read what you said, hence the equally asinine sort of response. How can you honestly say that one is 'more natural' than the other? They both occur in nature, therefore both are natural.

Think for a second, would you like your child to be gay? Whould you encourage your child to be gay by telling them that there is nothing wrong with it? I’ll tell you, no heterosexual couple would, even if they said they are in favor of homosexual marriage, homosexual couples by the other hand is a different story, and with those factor in the line I can say without the fear to be wrong that there are more chances for a child to become gay if he or she has gay parents than if he or she would have heterosexual parents

I'd like my child to be themselves, whichever orientation that may be. They are their own person, they should have the freedom to express that, and I as a good parent will support my child on that. After all, who would I be if I told my child "You have to be heterosexual!" Hell, not even along those lines - "You have to be a doctor! To hell with your dream of becoming an actor." Would that not piss you off? Would that not be fair? If you were my child, you'd hate me for that. I don't think any parent has sat down with their child and told them to 'be straight' or 'be gay.' That comes from the child themselves, so how could a homosexual or heterosexual couple 'form' their child to become a certain orientation?

Sexuality is not a choice, sexual preference is- at least from my point of view, by the way it hasn’t been proven is homosexuality is something you are born with or something you choose subconsciously, so that one is a dangerous subject but I’ll tell you what I think even if you don’t care about it:

I believe that it is a mix of both, some people are born being gay, some others (actually most) get into it by choice, either by their consciousness or sub-consciousness in this case these people were influence by their own doubts and fears not to mention other homosexuals.

I do care about your opinion, and respect it. I do not however agree with it. The determination of sexual orientation is debatable yeah, but scientific research has been supporting more and more of the biological conclusion, what with hormone levels, subtle differences in the brain, etc. As to outside influence, let's say for a moment that you're right. Wouldn't that work for heterosexual status as well then - putting sexual orientation altogether on the same level? Why then would one be 'right' and the other be 'wrong'?

Also, with the way you speak it's like homosexuals everywhere are trying to 'recruit' people to be like them. However, a lot of the people who find themselves to be 'gay' become stressed over it - wish it wasn't so - cry about it and hate themselves for it. How then is this a choice?

And again the “everybody gay= end of humanity” thing was a way to show that there is no benefits at all from gay people

A way that doesn't/won't even exist.* Again, your reference to something with no foundation weakens your argument considerably.

 

[QuickSilverD]

Quoted same text, different emphasis:

The text listed many purposes for marriage and yet you ignored all but the one. "Or" is also a very important word in that piece, as that means marriage doesn't necessarily have to include what you bolded.

From your point of view marriage doen't need to be for creating a family unit, it can be use simply to unite two people in love, so let me just ask you whats your opinion of people who marry without the intention to ever have children.

Homosexuals can't physically have children, so why can't they adopt and it be 'ok' as well?

The reasons for what I disagreed with gay couple talking care of children is because of the "bad" influence that these people sexual orientation will have in the kid, they may not be valid to you for their are for me and many others.

I know this wasn't directed at me, though I must say - how does this even relate to homosexual marriage? Sure it would've been easier, it's always easier with help. Why do you stress a man though? Another woman could be just as helpful, if not, perhaps more helpful as women are generally better with children.

I know that had nothing to do with the topic but he talked about how well his mother raised him and I always reply to every comment, I myself didn't understand how that was related to th topic. and why a stress a "man" and not a "woman" simply, "gender roles" they are dieing now at days but I still beleave in them.

By the way, what is positive about homosexual relationships?[/QUOTE]
The strong bond between two people who love each other. If there's a child involved, they may raise the little one in a comfortable home and provide/take care of them rather than the child being ignored/unattended to in one of the overcrowded and poorly equipped orphanages.

What's positive about heterosexual relationships? The only thing that's different is the capability of reproduction, which seems to be the only reason you strongly oppose homosexual -marriage- (which is confusing, because they're two very different topics.) If so focused on the status of population, consider what the -lack- of homosexuals would do. Orphanages would keep piling up, children would suffer because the staff could not possibly support the needs of these little ones, and yes, die due to this unsatisfied demand. As homosexuals who desire to raise children need to take care of those who are already present, orphanages are obviously the place they go, therefore they're very beneficial to society.

Heterosexual couples have strong bond of love between each other too, and why is such a bad thing (from my point of view) for Homos to raise children, for the influence they will have on them, and the lack of clear gender roles within a family

Bringing up a situation that will never happen is a very weak way to promote your side of the debate.

Ok,

You just said normal = majority. I can now put the "If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you too?" quote on you. "Normal" or "majority" doesn't mean it's right.

Normal is still = mayority, it is true that it doesn't mean is right, but neither it means is wrong, when I say normal I'm talking about what is the most common in society and thus the most acepted

Who said this? Lisa and I certainly did not. We're not saying homosexual couples are perfect, we're asking that you not stereotype an entire group of people and make assumptions.

It would seem that one of you implied it, and when you are adressing to an entire sub-group of society you have to speak for them all, meaning is hard not to stereotype them, after all there is a reason why stereotypes become steroetypes in the first place.

That depends on who you meet. Some homosexuals let their sexuality shine like the sun, others you can't even tell. Likewise, heterosexuals can be excessively obvious or just "whatever." Sexual orientation affects your personality, yes. That means heterosexuality too, but as you are such, you haven't analyzed how you yourself are affected, I think. It's a two-way street.

Some gays do, some others don't, still there are those that do, I think they call it "Homosexual pride".

I'm slightly confused here, can you please clarify? What do you mean by that? The way I took it, you're saying that homosexuals have somehow degraded the relationship between a man and a woman. That's not true at all. What's happened is simply a new orientation becoming more open: 'sharing the spotlight,' if you will, and requesting to be respected as the heterosexual couple have been.

What do I mean? I mean that the fact that there are gay people out have indeed degrated the normal relationship between a man and a woman, at the moment I'm guessing most women see a homosexual male as a girl, but still a man-- is hard to give an explanation actually, but a gay guy is not a hetero guy, they don't behave like normal males, and they may give a fake subconsious impresion in the girl about guys in general.

o_o That's an odd conclusion lol. Not what I meant at all, QuickSilverD. You said that by growing up with homosexual parents, the child will get all the wrong ideas about gender and gender roles. I basically responded that one's sex does not determine one's gender - in fact, for some people these two differ (a biological male who has a feminine gender, a biological female who has a male gender.) What the child learns is gender expression - it has no basis on sexual parts. Therefore, a homosexual or heterosexual upbringing has little to no difference in the outcome of the child (they won't 'get the wrong ideas' about gender roles.) The only area where it'd be foggy is if say, the boy had questions about sex though had two women as parents, or the girl with two men as parents. This case is simply solved by other members in the family though: so it's not really an issue.

We totaly desagreed here, my personal view: gender = sex, men are for women and women are for men, men are not for men and women are not for women. One other thing you should re-read the part of your post that I replied, it would seem that you were indeed sugessting that.

*chuckles* Exactly what I thought when I read what you said, hence the equally asinine sort of response. How can you honestly say that one is 'more natural' than the other? They both occur in nature, therefore both are natural.

How can I say it, simple: rate, the rate of hetero to homo, I don't know know it is as I don't have any census on the matter but I'm gonna make a wild guess and say at least 9:1, that is what makes one more natural than the other...

I'd like my child to be themselves, whichever orientation that may be. They are their own person, they should have the freedom to express that, and I as a good parent will support my child on that. After all, who would I be if I told my child "You have to be heterosexual!" Hell, not even along those lines - "You have to be a doctor! To hell with your dream of becoming an actor." Would that not piss you off? Would that not be fair? If you were my child, you'd hate me for that. I don't think any parent has sat down with their child and told them to 'be straight' or 'be gay.' That comes from the child themselves, so how could a homosexual or heterosexual couple 'form' their child to become a certain orientation?

We as parents have the responsability.. no, the Duty to educate our childs, teach them the differents between what is right and what is not, good and evil, law and crime, normaly acepted and what is not unacepted.

Now don't take me wrong I wouldn't let my kids behind if they turned out to be gay, but I would ensure to drive them in the right directions or if you prefer in what I believe are the right directions.

I do care about your opinion, and respect it. I do not however agree with it. The determination of sexual orientation is debatable yeah, but scientific research has been supporting more and more of the biological conclusion, what with hormone levels, subtle differences in the brain, etc. As to outside influence, let's say for a moment that you're right. Wouldn't that work for heterosexual status as well then - putting sexual orientation altogether on the same level? Why then would one be 'right' and the other be 'wrong'?

Thanks for saying that you care about what I say, and actually reading and replying to every bit of my arguments, I will do the same for you, and I do respect your opinion too, even when it is so distant from mine.

The same way you say that there are biological factors that can be found in a homosexual person and not in a heterosexual one could be atribute to the power of your own brain and self, if you are a man but you believe you are a woman then your brain will see it that way and react acording, it is like those people who get better from pills that are actually just sugar, but that they believe is a real cure. (Sorry I forgot what was the word for it)

Also, with the way you speak it's like homosexuals everywhere are trying to 'recruit' people to be like them. However, a lot of the people who find themselves to be 'gay' become stressed over it - wish it wasn't so - cry about it and hate themselves for it. How then is this a choice?

Homosexuals do want others to become homosexuals so their group grows and become stronger, but don't take me wrong we all do, any member of any social group wants the same, including heterosexuals, politicians, religion, and any ideological movement

A way that doesn't/won't even exist.* Again, your reference to something with no foundation weakens your argument considerably.

OK, now tell me, what good there is with homosexuality, tell me something that cannot be also atributed to heterosexuality, because it seems that you believe that there is something good about it, and I really don't know what that is so please tell me.

 

[Misty]

^ Seeing as homosexuals are human beings, they still feel the same as every other human. You cannot say that any child they have will turn out to be gay - I have already argued this anyway..

Back to my original stuff..

But wouldn’t it have been easier for your mother to raise you with a loving man with her, a man who would love her and help her financially, not saying that single mothers can’t do it, just saying it is easier with help.

Probably, but she didn't just have that happen to her. She had friends, sometimes, having friends around you is more important then a lover.

Yes.

Don't expect me to follow in your footsteps. I believe in equal rights, and last time I looked at equal rights, prejudice wasn't a part of it.

Think for a second, would you like your child to be gay?

I couldn't care less. Seriously, I would be there for my child no matter what.

Whould you encourage your child to be gay by telling them that there is nothing wrong with it?

I wouldn't encourage, it's for themselves to find out where their true sexuality lies.


[/quote] I’ll tell you, no heterosexual couple would, even if they said they are in favor of homosexual marriage, homosexual couples by the other hand is a different story, and with those factor in the line I can say without the fear to be wrong that there are more chances for a child to become gay if he or she has gay parents than if he or she would have heterosexual parents [/quote]

Until you have proof of this for every single homosexual couple in the world, I will refuse to believe you

You also cannot determine what heterosexual couples think :3

 

[QuickSilverD]

This is getting too long, I had trouble to see this page, I had to modify my User CP options to show only 10 post per page in other to be able to reply again.

On Topic>>

^ Seeing as homosexuals are human beings, they still feel the same as every other human. You cannot say that any child they have will turn out to be gay - I have already argued this anyway..

My friend I didn't say that all kids that are raise by homosexual couple will turn out to be gay, I said that the have more chances to do so than if they would be raised by heterosexual parents.

Probably, but she didn't just have that happen to her. She had friends, sometimes, having friends around you is more important then a lover.

This is not exacty on topic, so I see no reason to keep replying here.

Don't expect me to follow in your footsteps. I believe in equal rights, and last time I looked at equal rights, prejudice wasn't a part of it.

Is not about equal rights is about what is right and what is wrong. Just because you feel the need to agreed with them doesn't mean that you are right, what we were discussting here was whenever it was ok or not if gay people would marriage, I gave my opinions and used arguments to defend my points of view.

You don't seem to understand, if I would believe that there is no harm when people of the same sex marriage them I wouldn't be disscusting here with you. if you yet don't understand how there is a damage then is because you haven't read my posts, go back to my post in this thread and read it.

I couldn't care less. Seriously, I would be there for my child no matter what.

You are saying that now, but you can't really know until it happens, and everyone wants that their kids have kids, everyone wishes that their own genes be passed on to the future generations , is natura for us to think that way, it may be one of the reasons why finding out that your kid is gay hurts so much, cause you realise that your bloodline will end after that kid dies, now if you have other kids that are heterosexuals you would feel some relieve because your bloodline would not end.

I wouldn't encourage, it's for themselves to find out where their true sexuality lies.

True sexuality? there is only one true sexuality! you are a man or you are woman, don't try to go against that.

Until you have proof of this for every single homosexual couple in the world, I will refuse to believe you

You also cannot determine what heterosexual couples think :3

There is no need for denials, you refuse to see my point even when I use logical arguments, I said (in case you didn't notice) that by living in an enviroment where gender roles are not defined, where it is ok to have sexual intercourse with both the other and the same sex, then logicaly speaking it would be easier for them to choose the other pathway, than if they would live in an enviroment where gender roles are defined, and where it would be encorage the sexual relation between member of diferent sex.

Did your father or mother ever talked to you about "the birds and the bees" what is the first thing they say, uhm would it be something like "You see son, when a man and a woman are in love..." but what would be the gay version of that?

^^^ in case you didn't get what I mean, I was trying to imply that simply because of the type of parents a child have, his future is affected by it. regarless of how the parents think

 

[Tristis Miles]

so let me just ask you whats your opinion of people who marry without the intention to ever have children.

I'm perfectly okay with that. It's their choice whether or not they want to raise a child - it's a lot of responsibility and a huge step. If they just want to be together, that's a very respectable option.

because of the "bad" influence that these people sexual orientation will have in the kid, they may not be valid to you for their are for me and many others.

What is so bad about being attracted to the same sex? I know you've said because of the reproduction issue, but I just can't wrap my head around that when many people, regardless of orientation, choose to not have or can't have children. To me, as long as the child grows up with a good head on their shoulders, what does it matter which orientation their parents were? Heck, maybe a homosexual will discover a cure for cancer, or on a smaller scale, help you with your homework. Just because they are attracted in the not-so-common way doesn't mean they're badly influenced. What is this bad influence you speak of?

why a stress a "man" and not a "woman" simply, "gender roles" they are dieing now at days but I still beleave in them.

QuickSilverD, you seem very traditionalistic to me - 1950's type of thought, no? Tell me if I'm right when I say: you believe men should be at work and provide for the family, be the one "wearing the pants in the family." Women stay home and make tea, look after the children, do laundry, and greet her husband with a kiss as he walks through the door after a long day, providing dinner and his newspaper, right?

That ideology has long since passed. Why? Women got pissed off because they were slaves for their husbands, with no voice of their own. As the economy changed, women needed to work outside the home, and even then they retained the previous duties as house and caretaker. You know all this I'm sure, the women's rights movement and all. But even then, men are higher up on the hierarchy than women. I hate it, but most men think of women as weaker individuals. May I ask your view on this? (This question's relevancy will become clear in one of my later posts.)

why is such a bad thing (from my point of view) for Homos to raise children, for the influence they will have on them, and the lack of clear gender roles within a family

If you agreed with me on the previous paragraph, this next question is somewhat the same so ignore it - but if not, what gender roles do you feel are the 'correct' ones to be coming across?

It would seem that one of you implied it, and when you are adressing to an entire sub-group of society you have to speak for them all, meaning is hard not to stereotype them, after all there is a reason why stereotypes become steroetypes in the first place.

But how do you know you're speaking for the majority of homosexuals? Do you personally know a homosexual couple to accurately reflect on their ideals, or are you taking a wild stab at what you think they're going for?

Some gays do, some others don't, still there are those that do, I think they call it "Homosexual pride".

Yeah, they have 'gay pride' parades sometimes. A gay friend of mine thinks the whole thing is blown out of proportion, and he'll never be seen at one of those things. It just goes to show that again, not all homosexuals make their sexuality this central thing in their life - they're just people like we are.

at the moment I'm guessing most women see a homosexual male as a girl, but still a man-- is hard to give an explanation actually, but a gay guy is not a hetero guy, they don't behave like normal males, and they may give a fake subconsious impresion in the girl about guys in general.

Do you mean you're fearful that homosexual men will make women see you as a bit more feminine?

We totaly desagreed here, my personal view: gender = sex, men are for women and women are for men, men are not for men and women are not for women. One other thing you should re-read the part of your post that I replied, it would seem that you were indeed sugessting that.

Erm, the gender / sex difference isn't an opinionated thing. They're simply two different words with two different meanings that people often confuse, which leads to some trouble when discussing topics such as this one. Again, sex = parts, gender = masculinity/femininity. In some people they match, in others, they differ. I wasn't implying that 'everyone's a little gay inside' - you took it that way. If you drew that conclusion from the part in which I was talking about black, white, and gray - it was to gender, not sexual orientation. Both you and I possess qualities considered masculine and feminine, our combinations more masculine than feminine. Others have their own little combo with varying degrees, making people just like snowflakes.

If two wo/men raise a child, the child will learn from their gender and their ideas - and even then can choose to reject or accept it as their own. Just because their dad isn't 'super macho' and encourage little Johnny to work with the power saw doesn't mean little Johnny won't get interested in power tools *chuckles* Likewise, dad could be a handyman and the son decide it's just not what he likes to do. Many women adore shopping, but a sizable amount can't stand it. Some women drink beer and obsess over cars - There are a lot of defiances to the general stereotypes - the child will react to the gender displayed.

the rate of hetero to homo, I don't know know it is as I don't have any census on the matter but I'm gonna make a wild guess and say at least 9:1, that is what makes one more natural than the other...

That you know of. As said earlier, many homosexuals hide it due to feeling ashamed or repressed. Fear even, because back a few decades, a homosexual was often brutally attacked or even killed. How do you feel about that?

We as parents have the responsability.. no, the Duty to educate our childs, teach them the differents between what is right and what is not, good and evil, law and crime, normaly acepted and what is not unacepted.

Now don't take me wrong I wouldn't let my kids behind if they turned out to be gay, but I would ensure to drive them in the right directions or if you prefer in what I believe are the right directions.

Agreed, we want our kids to go in what we feel is the right direction, but no one has sat down and told them which orientation to be, right? I've never heard of that being done, or a parent encouraging their little boy to look at playboy mags for the sake of enforcing a heterosexual outcome. Sexual orientation just isn't something parents think about until perhaps the teenage years, by then children are 'exploring and experimenting.' By this I really don't think the parents influence their child's orientation - the child discovers it on their own.

The same way you say that there are biological factors that can be found in a homosexual person and not in a heterosexual one could be atribute to the power of your own brain and self, if you are a man but you believe you are a woman then your brain will see it that way and react acording, it is like those people who get better from pills that are actually just sugar, but that they believe is a real cure.

Ah, the placebo effect. The mind is a powerful thing and can be fooled, but I don't think this and homosexuality can be related - to me, homosexuality isn't this ideal in your mind that fools you into merely believing one likes members of the same sex. I think this because, to believe one is gay, one has to know what homosexuality is and all or most of what comes with it. The problem with this though, is that children discover their sexual orientation early on, when they're not educated about such terms and details. They just know - have this feeling, that they're different from the current majority. Those who take placebos on the other hand, know about whatever illness or problem they have and believe the prescribed pill/injection/whatever will work.

Homosexuals do want others to become homosexuals so their group grows and become stronger, but don't take me wrong we all do, any member of any social group wants the same, including heterosexuals, politicians, religion, and any ideological movement

You have a point here, but even so, all may not share this point of view. Have you asked a homosexual this question - if they wanted others to be homosexual as well? And you didn't answer my question: a lot of the people who find themselves to be 'gay' become stressed over it - wish it wasn't so - cry about it and hate themselves for it. How then is this a choice?

you are a man or you are woman, don't try to go against that.

Mm, I still beg to differ. The world is too complex to be broken down into merely two groups, wouldn't you say?

Is not about equal rights is about what is right and what is wrong. Just because you feel the need to agreed with them doesn't mean that you are right, what we were discussting here was whenever it was ok or not if gay people would marriage

Equal rights is a major root in the discussion though. Those who support equal rights will support gay marriage, as all are entitled to the same treatment, etc.

OK, now tell me, what good there is with homosexuality, tell me something that cannot be also atributed to heterosexuality, because it seems that you believe that there is something good about it, and I really don't know what that is so please tell me.

Well I have told you, QuickSilverD. They help out big time in orphanages and save lives that would otherwise be lost due to ignorance or the incapability of providing the needed things. That can't be related to heterosexuality, as heterosexuals are the people that put the kids there in the first place. Hence, some heterosexuals abuse the attribute they've been given just because it 'feels good.' Homosexuals are then, in analogy, the pillows that soften the blow of the excessive misuse of intercourse.

Other than that, I have to smile again when you say this: "tell me something that cannot be also attributed to heterosexuality." The pros and cons of the two types of orientations/relationships are just that similar my friend =)

 

[Lilly]

you cant help who you love... so if you lov'em marri'em
not that i think its right i just think ITS THERE LIFE let them be free too
this is the so called "land of the free".

 

[Misty]

Did your father or mother ever talked to you about "the birds and the bees" what is the first thing they say, uhm would it be something like "You see son, when a man and a woman are in love..." but what would be the gay version of that?

I don't know. And no, my mother never talked to me about sex education. I got taught all that at school.

True sexuality? there is only one true sexuality! you are a man or you are woman, don't try to go against that.

Er..I was on about what path they would choose, whether it be Bi, Gay, Straight..

You are saying that now, but you can't really know until it happens, and everyone wants that their kids have kids, everyone wishes that their own genes be passed on to the future generations , is natura for us to think that way, it may be one of the reasons why finding out that your kid is gay hurts so much, cause you realise that your bloodline will end after that kid dies, now if you have other kids that are heterosexuals you would feel some relieve because your bloodline would not end.

You seem to be deciding what I will be thinking, and you shouldn't really. Ok, say my child decides to be straight, however, my child does not have any children. My bloodline will also end there. Some people today decide not to choose to have children. That could happen with any child I have. They may just choose career over kids. Personally, I'm also leaning towards that way of thinking, choosing career over kids, because I believe I am not blessed with the ability to attract a man, get married to him, and have kids etc.